Community Meeting Transcript

Daniel T: Cool. Uh, shall we get started? All right. Uh, so maybe, uh, so Pablo, why don't you get started talking about the board member election update?

Pablo V: Sure. So, um, last call or maybe one before. Uh, on the Discord, there's been people asking about, um, how does the board work? How can people apply? Um, is there an opportunity to add more members? And I want to share the responses that we got from our lawyers on how elections work to kind of reiterate the dynamics. I also made a proposal to different people on the board, but I don't think anybody has answered that, so I don't have much to share. Um, so I will just-- I would just like to share a little bit what our lawyer said regarding new board members. So basically, right now we have a board of eight. We're allowed to have up to 13 board members. Um, in order to add new people, we need to do it two years after. There's no... So two years after the first election. So the, the next election will be in January 2028. There's no possibility to do it earlier unless somebody would step down Or leave their, leave their position. Um, if there's enough-- If, if somebody leaves their position before, then yes, this would trigger an extraordinary election. Everybody can run for the board. Um, and one of the issues that we have in the board right now, and this is something that maybe we should propose to the general assembly, is that currently we are having issues reaching quorum for some decisions. Quorum needs half plus one, uh, board members. So there's no mechanism of what happens if we, for example, have thirteen members and we never reach the quorum. We would just... We could potentially be blocked, like, indefinitely. Um, so I think unless somebody else wants to take ownership of this, I think I will take ownership of proposing an amendment to get out of, uh, quorum blocks. But this is where we are. Um, currently there is no extraordinary election. If somebody were to step down or somebody would be removed via general assembly, that would trigger an election. Otherwise, there's no mechanism, and I think we should consider, like, an amendment. Uh, Gjersrud?

Daniel T: Yeah. So it, uh, um, clarifying if, if I understood correctly, like there's no, no mechanism right now, but we could propose an amendment to the statutes allowing earlier elections if we wanted to. But basically, that could be, uh, an amendment that we propose. So basically right now, unless somebody steps down, even though we want to have an election, we can't actually have an election by the statutes. It would be an invalid election, uh, according to our lawyers. But if-

Pablo V: Currently, yes

Daniel T: ... we were to make an amendment, we could basically make an amendment where we both, um, uh, adjust the quorum requirements so that we avoid getting blocked if we have ten, twelve members, and we just never manage to get like, you know, uh, enough, enough people to join the call. And at the same time, we could also make it easier to call elections, uh, earlier than the two-year cycle. Um-

Pablo V: I'm not sure. And, and on this, Daniel, just for transparency, that is what I asked this morning.

Daniel T: Okay.

Pablo V: Exactly what you're saying. I asked, uh-

Daniel T: So we don't know yet.

Pablo V: Sorry, yesterday. And they said, "Is there any other way of doing extraordinarily?" I would assume it's like you're saying, but I still don't know. Once I know, I can bring it to the next call.

Daniel T: Mm-hmm. Okay.

Pablo V: So that's where we are. Having said that, I, I think there's other ways to get involved, and I will bring some of these to the next board meeting. So hopefully in the next community call, if any of these ideas sound good to more people than me, um, we will kind of propose them. But currently there's other ways of having observers and, and just... Yeah, there's a few ideas I, I really want to explore. So far, they're just ideas of like how to have other people involved or more visibility.

Daniel T: Okay, cool.

Pablo V: That's the update.

Daniel T: Okay, great.

Pablo V: That's it, yes.

Daniel T: Um, next item on the agenda is around working groups. Um, so we don't yet have a clear, um, um, resolution about this. We-- There's been conversations going on for a few weeks, some of which you might have seen on the governance channel and elsewhere, um, and in the minutes on the, the, the website. Um, earlier this week on Monday, if you look at the, the minutes of the board meeting, there was a lot of vigorous discussion about working groups, and we came to, uh, an, an idea that we haven't voted on yet. We wanted to like, you know, rest on it. But the idea would be something like, uh, that, uh, basically the, the working groups are just... There's a registry of working groups. Um, anybody who wants to organize a group of people to work on something can register, um, uh, for, uh, the, um, uh, can register a working group with the secretary. They can then get a channel on Discord. They get a page on the website where they can publish minutes and any other resources they need to, like, publish more information. Uh, did I put the agenda on community calls? I'm not sure. Can you, can you paste it there, Pablo? Um-

Pablo V: Comments, yeah.

Daniel T: The, um... And, and here maybe. Um, and, um, the idea is that rather than trying to come up with some kind of complicated, uh, process that tries to, uh, like have the board deciding which working groups are allowed to work on what and so on, we wanted a more participatory process where anybody can create a, a working group, where creating a working group doesn't mean that the, the board has decided that you're the right people to work on this, but it just means that you've decided to work on this, and therefore you register, you have a working group, you have a channel, you're-- you've got visibility. And then, uh, each working group can go and do some work and eventually present either, like, present something in community calls or, uh, help a department make a decision or present a proposal to the general assembly or present a proposal to the board. Uh, for example, there could be a working group working on the sound policy. There could be a working group working on how to arrange-- how to stack cantina food. I don't know. Like any-anything is... Like as long as some people want to work on something and they want to organize, uh, as a, as a working group, they can. And then we give them a platform for like some visibility, but without, uh, making any kind of judgment as to whether they are going about it the right way or they're the right people to work on it. We have some guidance. Like obviously, um, as an organization, we believe that transparency is a really good thing, so we suggest like engaging with the people that you're impacting and being transparent and being inclusive, making it easy for people to join a working group. And part of that is being aware that the working group exists. Um, so, um, that's where we are. If you want to-- If you have opinions about this, please, uh, jump into the governance channel on Discord, uh, ask questions, et cetera, or ask questions on, on, on this call, but probably the governance channel will involve more of the people involved in this. Um, we're hoping to pass a resolution for this on Monday next week and then to be able to sort of create channels and so on for working groups. Um, hopefully that makes sense to everybody. Um, and if you have questions, you can also ask them now, but otherwise I will hand over to-- back to Pablo to talk about the El Sitio working group [chuckles] which will be one of the working groups that we'll assemble.

Pablo V: Yeah.

Daniel T: That is a great example 'cause it's a group of people that have been working, and it shows that, you know, you don't need a working group to get work done. But people have regularly been asking, you know, where, where can I find out about the new site? And I've been sending them to the Telegram and to the Discord channel, and people still, like, kind of aren't sure where is the group of people working on the, on the new site. And, you know, if you've been around here for the last six months, you know, oh, yeah, Pablo and Ward and so on. But if you haven't, it's harder to find, and we're hopefully gonna make it easier to find. So over to you, Pablo.

Pablo V: Yeah. Thanks, Daniel. Uh, any questions before about the working groups? Okay. Basically, I wanted to share about the new site as a working group because I think it's a cool example. So what I wrote in the chat, a working group in my mind is a bit like a barrio. If you get together with a few people, you can make a working group. You don't need permission. And the statues today say you need it, but we wanna make it so we-- you don't need it. And as an example, um, this is a group that we've been running for quite some time. Uh, Ward originally... I think so many people have helped with this. I, I don't wanna start naming-

Daniel T: [chuckles]

Pablo V: ...because I'll forget someone. But, um, basically, we want to now make it official and take it as, um... Well, not official. Uh, we wanna make it a working group and take it as an example of how does it work. So we gave it a name, El Sitio, 'cause it's Els Pla site. Now there's a website. So the website is elsitio.kimi.page. I will share it on Discord. But basically, all the questions are answered here. It's-- It doesn't have the really inside details because we're in negotiations with, you know, the owners, but everything else that's public is here. So you can see the most up-to-date version of the presentation that many of you have seen. I tried to show where we are, and where we are is we're in the feasibility stage. We need to lock the land. We have one of them locked, not the other one. We are-- We have submitted to the authority m- some dates that we would like for an event, but the authorities are away until September. So if you're wondering, is there an event happening in September? Almost for sure not. Is there an event happening in October? Maybe. We will not know until the authorities are back. So the goal of the working group from now on will be to work in the open, to share transparently, to allow anybody who wants to get involved to come and, you know, step up, contribute to the project. There's a lot of talk about sustainability, um, questions about financing, offers to help. The way we see it so far, and you're welcome to come to the call, which I will announce, but the way we see it is right now we should lock in the terms so we have a clear case of how much it would cost. We would like to organize a trial event, if possible in October. If not, we'll see. After that small event of 100 to 5-- 100 to 500 people, we would vote. And in this case, this is how a working group works, right? Until here, we didn't really need permission for anything. Um, we will see how much the event is kind of independent or not. Until here, we're just a working group, like of whoever is there. But at this point, because we're asking NCA to purchase land, this would affect the community, so this would require a general vote from everybody. So we haven't done this before, but it would be similar to maybe the GoNoGo vote, maybe like more mature as we've been learning. But this would be the gate. This is where the organization kind of takes the proposal from the working group and turns it into something actionable. And then here it starts a real project where, you know, maybe we set up a new department, we fundraise, we purchase, and we do all this. So I've tried to list some projects like the community survey that we did last year, the site search. These are done. I tried to show a few others that are coming, like the land agreements, finding a co-buyer, the due diligence, and species protection. So a lot of stuff. And what I'll do is if anybody just has ideas, you can write me and I'll put it here, put it in the channel. If anybody wants to join the meetings, I would love that, and that will be every two weeks. So every other Wednesday at 6:00 p.m. Spanish time. I will do Wednesday, 26 August and 26. Uh, you can now go to the website, add it to your calendar, join the Zoom. I will put it in the chat, and I will put it on Discord. But that's an example, um, of a working group. And if you have similar ideas, uh, maybe Daniel can take this back to close it. Um, but yeah, I, I wanna follow kind of the same processes we're proposing. So here I will never be acting as a board member. I will be acting as a kind of a, I guess, coordinator. We need to formalize it.

Daniel T: Um, yeah, we're still formalizing that. There is one or two coordinators per working group. Again, we welcome input on this. Uh, it feels like having a point of contact, uh, is helpful. And it's a coordinator, not a, a, a lead. It's a, it's a point of contact. Any questions on this side? On, uh, Pablo's, uh, presentation? No? Okay. Um, great. Thank you, Pablo. And I'll move on to, uh, next agenda item around, uh, event dates. Um, actually, I'll do the coordinators, uh, just a brief summary of the coordinators working group. Uh, I'm not gonna go into the details of it, but if you go to the nobodies.team website, you can see, uh, uh, meeting notes under transparency, and there's a coordinators, um, working group that happened yesterday. They are meeting to talk about, um- Uh, they, they, they met to talk about the setup issues yesterday. Next week they'll be meeting to talk about the event time issues, and then the week after that to talk about the strike time issues. Uh, if you're curious to see what they talked about, you can check the transparency meeting notes. Um, and, uh, if you're a coordinator, you can attend those. Uh, if you're not a coordinator and you want to attend those, just get in touch with Daniela and maybe you can. I don't know, that's up to her. Um, and but you can either way, uh, see the minutes and see what is being discussed. Um, and with that, I'll move on to the event date votes update, and there's two parts to this. Um, one is that, um, I was hoping to be able to send the survey out today. However, um, uh, life took over my life and I just was really busy with a whole bunch of stuff, and I haven't quite gotten there. The, the team, so Celine and, uh, Peter and, um, uh, Ancor ha- have been helping put together the Google Doc survey, but I'm basically in the final stages of figuring out how to deploy things to Humans so I can fix the survey module there, so I can actually create a survey for people on Humans. Um, I would hope to be able to send out, send it out, uh, that we'll be able to send it out over the next, uh, uh, couple of days, so by the end of the weekend, so we can start collecting input from the community, like the kind of broader input of the format of like which dates do you, uh, do you like, which dates do you not like, and which days can you not come, uh, for, uh, so that we know, uh, the community's preferences. And also, um, for people who are involved in build or strike, which dates can you come for, uh, event build? Which dates can you come for, uh, barrier build? Which dates, dates can you come for strike, et cetera? So we get a sense of the impact of different dates. We are gonna pre-select the dates so that it's not to get-- not to need people to click on 50,000 things in order to vote. Uh, so for example, because there is no-- Like, the reason why we're looking at moving the dates is the fire risk. There's no point, there's no sense in moving it later in the month of July or moving into August where the fire risk is higher. So it's probably gonna be dates earlier than that, and then, uh, some dates in like September or October. So we're gonna try and limit the number of dates that you have to vote on, so you don't have to click so many times. Um, but one of the points that also came up that felt like worth discussing, and there I'd really like to open for input and, uh, this is the last agenda item as far as I know, so it, uh, makes sense to open for discussion at this point, is, um, so like there is a kind of question about how exactly we consult the community on this. And I've heard mixed feedback. I've talked to a number of people from the community, both members and collaborators and barrier people and so on, and I've heard a mix. Um, and the question is, um, how do we make the final decision about the, the date? Um, do we... Like, so one option would be like, you know, the board just makes a decision, gets input, and just makes a decision, and the surveys are just input. Even the, the members survey, the associados survey is just a survey, it's just advisory, and the board just makes the final decision. Another one would be that we get im- we get broad input for the community and we, um, uh, um, like use that to, to, um, uh, restrict the dates that can be picked so that the most commercially harmful, so the most viability harmful dates are not in the selection. And then we let the, the members, the associados, which are about 100 people at this point, make a binding vote that the board just has to implement. And another one would be that we just, uh, open up the full range of dates for associados to vote on, um, and all the dates that make any sense are, are in the vote, uh, rather than, say, the top five. Um, and the associados make a binding decision, and the board just has to execute. And maybe there's other options as well. Like, part-- So part of the concept there is that I, as you might have figured out, I care a lot about this community being in charge of this event. Um, I think it's an association of members. The board is there to serve the members. And, um, one of the ways that you learn to use the power that you have is by using it. Um, and so when I saw, okay, there's this important decision coming about the event dates and there's, um, uh, this is, this could be an opportunity to... And, and there's this desire I have for the community to make decisions, to like exercise its power, its democratic power to make decisions. I thought the two fit quite well together. But some of the feedback I've received suggests that some people would prefer for the board to make a decision. Some people are happy for the members to make a decision. There's a mixture of feedback, and I've been having some individual conversations. But since there's 33 people on this call right now, plus a couple of note takers, um, I thought might as well ask people here on this call for your opinions and, you know, hear, hear you. And you can type or you can speak. João, you have your hand raised, so why don't we hear from you?

João T: Yeah. Well, uh, thanks, Sam, for presenting the current state of the, the topic and like outlining how we're looking to move the things towards. Uh, well, again, I, I feel compelled to say that I think it's great what the board has done in terms of like making things happen, the whole transition, and keeping the community informed and taking input. I think the last, I don't know if it was one of... Yeah, the last vote that we had open to the community was whether the event should happen or not. And while I think that having the vote was positive, I personally felt that the process leading up to the vote was no ideal. Particularly once we got right, uh, to the vote, we heard from people that had different opinions, and I felt that maybe we could have had a more productive discussion around The opinions that people have. So I personally don't have an opinion on the specific date, but if people have opinions that sh- like May is the greatest month, or June should be, or maybe September, I don't know if, like, as these people make their opinions known, I don't know if in Discord or somewhere else, uh, we could have a process where people make a case for these options that are viable, and, and then, like, where the, the community votes or then the board takes a decision. I'm a bit ambivalent, but I do think that the discussion around the dates could be interesting and important before we actually come to vote, because I think that in the process of presenting these, these cases, I think the community might lean towards one way or the other. Eh, while, while, like I think, uh, is a takeaway from the, the discussion of the go, no-go vote for the, uh, the event. I feel that, like, the concerns that people had, uh, that were for like no-go were presented kind of last minute, and I felt in the end a lot of people felt that, well, maybe there are valid concerns, but we didn't really have the time to discuss them. So now while we're gonna make a very impactful decision for the event for next year, uh, I think that maybe like we should create a space for this discussion to happen before we just decide. In the end, the decision, whether it comes from the community or the board, uh, I feel that the discussion around it is something we should focus on.

Daniel T: That's, that's-

João T: And-

Daniel T: Yeah, that's really interesting. So like I'm imagining something like that, um, we set up a, a community call like this one maybe, but with the specific agenda of discussing the dates, and maybe everybody who wants to speak about, who has an opinion they wanna share, uh, gets a five or 10-minute, depending on how many people end up wanting to speak, slot to go and share their position on why certain dates make sense or doesn't make sense, and allows their voice to be heard, to be documented, to be minuted, to be heard by the board and by the community. Um, maybe that's, um, like that, that's what I'm hearing from what you suggest. Um, and so maybe that makes-

João T: Yeah. It, it, it... Something along those lines, and maybe like before some people individually make the case for this, is that allow them, I don't know, maybe some form of discussion group, uh, or people that are wanna make the case for the same date can have a discussion on Discord or organize themselves however way, and then we have like different proposals that can be built around specific dates or something like that.

Daniel T: So, so for those who don't know, there is already a Discord group on this, and once the working group's framework is set up, there will be a working group specifically for event dates where people can join these kind of conversations. But okay, I'll hand over to, uh, Condor. Thank you, Joao.

Condor: Hi. Yeah. Um, I just follow up on Joao's point. I think, yeah, um, I think like, uh, whether the board makes the decision or the associados, I think I, I mean, I think it would be fine either way. But as long as people kind of feel that there's been an opportunity to discuss things in advance, so maybe if the associados are making a decision, uh, that they maybe could arrange a meeting and at least people be able to pitch ideas before the actual vote. Um, one other thing I think might be good is the board probably are the people who maybe, you know, have been deepest into a lot of the reasons, and there's different reasons why you want different dates because you might think, you might think, um, like what do you wanna focus on? Do you wanna focus just on event safety? Do you wanna focus on growth? Do you wanna focus on different things? So maybe if the board didn't make the vote, maybe having discussion, having a board recommendation could be interesting, um, that you kind of like, like some people do in AGMs. Like it's not the board's vote, but they can say like, "We think this," and you're free to vote on it or not. That would probably be a good idea.

Daniel T: Yeah, so in the original way that I imagined the, the general assembly votes going, there would be one of the-- Like, there'd be a table with the, the dates and stuff, and one of the columns of information would be how many board members voted to support that date. And one option would be like, you know, we even list dates where the entire board voted that this is a bad date. Another option would be like, you know, if not more than half the board supports a date, we don't list it at all because it's probably a bad idea to, to go for that date. Uh, but they could see the amount of board support on each date, um-

Condor: Mm

Daniel T: ... as part of the, pa- as part of the vote. Um-

Condor: Yeah. One last thing I didn't throw in.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Condor: I think also if we have a vote with like a million choices, the name thing was a bit like that. It gets really diluted if there's too much choice.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Condor: So less choices, it's easier to, to navigate.

Daniel T: We did learn that lesson about ranked voting, didn't we? [laughs]

Condor: Exactly. Don't wanna be

Daniel T: Uh, thank you so much, Condor. Uh, I'll pin Vish. Your turn.

Vishal: I just wanna say thanks, guys, for doing all this work. Uh, I like Joao's suggestion and what Condor said. My thing is when you send out the questionnaire to the entire community, could you put maybe, I don't know how you're doing it, but next to each date a reason why you want that date or why you think it's good, and also why you don't want a particular date? Because then at the end, that could all be summarized. You could use AI or something to summarize everyone's comments for each particular date. So that kind of would aid the discussion when the vote takes place.

Vishal: By the association members

Daniel T: So you reckon-

Vishal: You rec-

Daniel T: ... adding a, a kind of field next to each date saying like-

Vishal: Well, it doesn't need to, uh, it, the-

Daniel T: Maybe a common field in general like that allows... Yeah.

Vishal: It's something along those lines. I mean-

Daniel T: Right

Vishal: ... how you do it, it doesn't really matter too much.

Daniel T: Mm-hmm.

Vishal: Um, but something that allows people to go, "I really like this date because of this, this, this, and I really d- don't like this date because of this, this, this." So maybe two boxes at the end, which is your preferred date and why, and which date do you not want, and then that could be summarized with like date boxes, so parsing it's easier. And that means when it comes to the actual meeting, you don't have 100 people trying to give a reason that's summarized for everyone to see before.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Vishal: Uh.

Daniel T: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. Yeah, like, uh, yeah, let's add a, a box and then we can use AI. AI is really good at summarizing those kind of things and making sure it represents all the variety of comments quite well. So-

Vishal: Yeah, because I, I'm guessing some people will be holidays and stuff. In my case it'll be clashing with Nest primarily. So, um-

Daniel T: The-

Vishal: That's-

Daniel T: On, on, on that like we have somebody who, you know, so Peter K is going to try and talk to Nest or maybe somebody else is gonna try and talk to Nest, but there's also a possibility, I understand that Burning Nest wants to have a distance from, uh, uh, elsewhere. And it could be that if we move to closer to where Burning Nest is, Burning Nest can take the nice July slot, which is nicer in the UK [chuckles] probably than May. Having lived in the UK for 20 years, I, I think I'd rather go to Burn there in July than in May. But anyway, that's not like we need to find that out from, from the Nest organizers. I can't speak for them. Thank you very much, Vishal. Uh, I'll give over to Benoit.

Benoit: Hey, all. Um, I very much agree, also agree that there needs to be a forum for discussion. Um, I do remember last year there was quite a lot of heated discussion on Discord around the no, no go, no go decision. I thought that was incredibly helpful. Um, to the original question of whether it should be board or associados, I very much think it should be the associados. Um, I feel like people wanting the board to make the decision is giving up too much ownership and then puts, potentially puts people in a position later of saying like, "I don't like this vote. This is the board," and like getting into kind of that old, um, leadership versus everyone else thing. I feel like the associados are the ones who, like it's the camp leaders, it's the leads. These are the people who should be owning the decision personally. But yeah, very much agree on the discussion ahead of time, making sure there is a way for people to make a case for it, and I also like the idea in the vote itself to capture the p- positives and negatives.

Daniel T: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, there's a kind of like, um, philosophy issue there. Like I'm, I'm from Switzerland, and so I'm not scared of voting. Uh, but I'm also in the, from the UK and like, uh, for some reason there, that, that place has, uh, scared me of some kind of voting, which is this sort of like uninformed vote on just a headline with no information and no, no clarity about what exactly is the con- the, the, the impact of what you're voting on. And I think that if we like, and this is not, I'm not sure, this is not the opinion of the board, this is my personal opinion, but I believe that if we are able to prepare good enough information, then we can have regular voting, and then the members can really be in direct charge of the key decisions of the, the association. And I believe that members care about making good decisions.

Benoit: No, and I really want it to be also with the barrio leads to make sure they feel like they have this choice 'cause they're the ones like doing so much of the work of organizing people, getting people to come, all of that. Like they need to feel like they own this decision.

Daniel T: Hmm. Yeah. Anyone else want to speak? Somebody says, "Yes, the voting process can be improved. Strongly feel it should be put to a vote. That is why we are an association to move away from top-down decision-making and s- and giving the community a voice." João, you wanna speak again?

João T: Yeah. Uh, just kind of summarizing and trying to understand where we are looking to moving towards because, uh, suggesting, the suggest from V of like having the survey come with a, a justification that then will be summarized. If that is the next step as a kind of like brainstorm of possible dates, I think that will be a good, uh, first step that then with the result of this, uh, survey, we end up with some candidate dates that have some pros and cons that then that could lead then to a discussion on Discord where people could, um, organize around, uh, different proposals that then could lead to one or more calls where people make these cases and then try to get people's awareness because I'm all for the community, uh, deciding on this, but just as long as they are informed and we have enough people involved because we certainly, like if we were for to have a vote of like 50 people, I'd rather the people that are closer to the decision, say the board or a work group, will take this decision. But if we manage to get hundreds of votes, I think that that will make more sense, uh, as long as people are informed, and we have this opportunity to have this discussion openly and, uh, to, yeah, with enough time.

Daniel T: Thank you very much, João. I'll hand over to Ellen. Lots of people wanted to talk.

Ellen (Dr Plantes): Yeah. Just a quick question. Is there a cutoff date for when one can last apply to become an associado?

Daniel T: So, uh, n- n- no. Uh, I mean, there's no cutoff date in general. Uh, for this vote, um- The-- I don't think the statutes say anything about you need to be a member X days before the vote. So as long as you're a member before the vote happens, then that would, uh, be enough. Um, the-

Ellen (Dr Plantes): How much time do you need to approve someone?

Daniel T: Uh, typically it takes us a few days because there's a kind of voting queue on Humans, and not everybody logs in every day. So like it then needs at least five votes so that Ben c- Ben can just click and approve them as members. And it takes a few days for everybody to log in and click yes, yes, yes. So, uh, yeah. Does that answer your questions?

Ellen (Dr Plantes): It does. Thank you.

Daniel T: Fantastic. I'll, uh, hand over to Az- Azuro.

Azzurro: Yes. Um, the-- [clears throat] I wanted to continue with the, with the voting, people voting or board voting, voting. I think most of the topics, people voting would be fine, but I think there are some topics which the board is better, uh, approved to vote because f- first, they do have more insights, they do have more knowledge about some topics. And also, sometimes it has a huge bo- uh, effect on the board depending on how they vote and how much more of work it will be one or the other decision. So [clears throat] there could be some votes which are best done by the board, so there's not an overwhelming much of more work just because some people want to have a different date or different name or whatever, a just a vegan festival or whatever. There are some things which, um, which is best s- uh, done by the board and others which are most of them are best done by the, by the people. Just be aware that the board can have lots of more work just because of some people feeling uncomfortable with what something.

Daniel T: Do, do you believe, do you believe that-

Azzurro: That's my point

Daniel T: ... do you believe that this one, this event date vote should be done by the board or by the community? So like the specific-

Azzurro: Um, I think, uh, it does not give the board an extensive more work if they change the date.

Daniel T: Mm.

Azzurro: But I don't know because I'm not on the board. I don't know what a different date means for the board. I have not the inside information.

Daniel T: I, I, I can tell you that, and everybody, that one of the main concerns that we have as a board is we don't wanna move the event obviously somewhere where like, uh, a lot of the core community can't attend. That would be a disaster. We also don't wanna move the event somewhere where suddenly it becomes unsuccessful at attracting enough people to be commercially viable. Um, and of course, we also don't wanna keep the event in a times, in a time period in the year where it's gonna be canceled because of, uh, of, uh, wildfires. And like to reiterate, in case people on this call aren't aware, the event this year should have been canceled three times by law. Because when a ROHA+ alert is declared, by law, by an official decreto they passed in March, all permits are suspended automatically. That is like just the law. And it's because of arg- like lot of arguing by, on our side, uh, Daniela and Jorge, and then also the, the mayor was on our side, and the Comarca was on our side, and we... There were a lot of tense discussions with the government of Aragon that we managed to get them to not evacuate us every time there was a ROHA+. But we should have been evacuated three times. It's just for the Aragon region, yes, but it's for the whole Aragon region, and so that applies to the old site, the new site, everywhere in the region. And, um, so if we keep it at the same time, like the board believes that there's a more than 50% likelihood that we would get canceled next year because they may not, uh, be so lenient next year after strongly implying to us that we really should move the event. Uh, over to Imanol.

Imanol: Yeah. Hi, everyone. So actually, what I wanted to say, you kinda summarized it now because I was thinking like also in terms of the questionnaire, like I think the questionnaire can... It's really interesting, and I'm not against what someone suggested of making the people say why, but I have the p- the feeling that asking the people why, uh, they want this date or not, like people will start saying, "Yeah, because there is this event," or, "Because it's my cat's birthday," or whatever, so it doesn't change what we actually need. That is how many people can we get? It's like will you be able to do build? Like what are you doing build? Will you able to be, uh, to do build if we move it this date, if we move it this date, if we move it this date? Same for the event, for from the strike. And just simply get, uh, okay, which is, which the weeks are that we get the maximum amount of people based on what they were doing. And also, like I have to confess, I was a bit out of the entire Discord, and I re- just realized the entire chat of event dates, and I saw the very beautiful, um, uh, graphs with, uh, the, uh, chances of temperature, of rain on everything. So I think the only... Like the vote. So we need to vote, but the vote has to be based on something very data-driven. That is where there is the most match between the most amount of people and the less- least likelihood of having too much wind or, uh, too much rain or too much heat. And the vote has to be really narrow between the match of the data-driven thing of amount of people and weather forecast. And for me, that would be the way of deciding, not everyone putting votes and so on, like deciding, saying why we want this or not. That's my feeling.

Daniel T: Uh-

Imanol: Data-driven always.

Daniel T: To be, to be clear, like, uh, one of the, uh, maybe terminology that can be helpful here is like the difference between a vote and a survey. Um, we will run a survey to get input about when people can attend and so on, but that's not a vote. It's not the, the, the decision.

Imanol: Yeah, yeah. I understood that, sorry.

Daniel T: Mm-hmm.

Imanol: But, but I had the feeling that the vote, sorry for coming again, but that was gonna be like a lot of, uh, bi- not binding, but anyway.

Daniel T: Yeah. The, the, yeah, the survey to the broad, the large number of people would not be binding, definitely. The only vote that can be binding is the vote of the Asociados. But even the Asociados could do a non-binding vote, um, like an advisory vote where the board still takes the ultimate decision. Or The, as I said, the board can pre-select a set of, a set of options, and then the members decide among those, or there's many options and the members decide. Uh, thank you, Emmanuel. Uh, I'll hand over to Benoit.

Benoit: Um, a couple things. Um, I was thinking instead of having a long list of exact dates, would it be easier to just say like early September, late September, early August, late August? Like something like that to like lower the number of, you know, exact week date numbers for people. I don't know if that would help. Um, but then the other thing like to the, to the previous point is I, I do think it's important to get people's reasons. Um, yes, some of them might be purely personal and not impact others, but a lot of people's reasons are important and impact a large number. So like obviously the fire risk is one. Um, just the character of the event is another. Like a lot of people like it hot, a lot of people don't like it hot. Like that is a, that is a l- very like macro decision about the type of event we should have. Um, and then the other, the other thing that keeps being brought up is of course summer vacations, people with kids. Um, and this varies completely by country, so it can't-- we can't cover everything. Like even just for Germany, we cannot-- Summer vacation is July and August for the kids. Like there is no way to have the, [chuckles] the event both be good for summer vacation for the kids and not be in fire risk. So, but other countries have it differently. So it's like it's important to understand these so that when the members are making their vote, they can see like, okay, these are the what people want, but also why, so I can say like what I agree with as to the character of what I think the event should be as well.

Daniel T: Yeah. Thank you very much. Um, yeah, that, that, that makes sense. Uh, I'll hand over to Tank.

Tancredi T: Uh, yeah. I just wanted to make, uh, just a point on government, uh, governance, et cetera. So this is just an opinion. Uh, based on smaller realities, but I reckon especially in like the case of like sort of, uh, spreading the workload and responsibili- responsibilizing people in a, in a horizontal sort of decision-making, especially in the context of an association, I think the best place to be eventually, like where you work out to be, is that the board sort of becomes one thing that, that, you know, are only called in for very, very important th-things. The idea is right now obviously like certain people are closer to certain issues, but in any decision and in time you're gonna get people switching on and off sort of their effort on specific issues. So the idea of the working group is brilliant. Um, and the idea is to, to get the people that are really interested and willing to do work right now in a certain topic, prepare for that vote, to prepare a package of information like last time. Uh, that becomes very practical because otherwise all the sort of important bits of the workload will over time fall back on the same people otherwise. Uh, the fact that a group has to be responsibilized, uh, and sort of take lead of doing the research, the package or compiling it and listening to people opinion, whatever that group might be for any, uh, specific issue is completely unrelated to the board in a way. Uh, but yeah, that's, that's the only point I wanted to make. So if there's a group of people that right now care about this, they should be sort of expected to show up with that package of information, compiling it, uh, chasing people on the Discord, and then you get to an informed vote. Uh, because you can have another, you know, 10 meetings in person [chuckles] and they will just be messy as every- everyone said if, if, uh, the information is not compiled beforehand. So sort of working groups for each issue, um, yeah, leading, leading that process. That's, that's it. Sorry.

Daniel T: Thank you. Uh, thank you, Tank. I think Condo had his hand raised, but I don't see him anymore. Um, I'll just use the opportunity to, uh, reiterate something I said before. Like my hope is that we're gonna get to the point eventually where, um, uh, the board is not doing all that much, just like high-level governance, approving the budget, um, pass like, you know, may- maybe some, some kind of like, you know, basically being the interface of the, the event, signing documents, which is apparently the president has to sign all the documents, but becomes kind of chief paperwork officers. But I also appreciate that we're not there yet. This year we had to go and like we had to bootstrap an organization from scratch out of nothing. Well, not out of nothing. Like there was a, a huge amazing community, but the organizational side was completely missing. There was no bank account. It was not registered. There was no entity that could sign permits any way or apply for them. Like we had to go and get everything done in under incredibly tight timelines. So it made sense for the board to just roll up their sleeves and get shit done. But, um, I would hope that in a year, in two years, like in some-- at some point in the future, that is no longer the case and the board is basically just kind of overseeing a community that is largely doing everything that needs to be done without the board needing to be involved, and the board is kind of like a relatively light role. Um, the question is, are we there yet? Probably n- well, we're definitely not there yet completely. Are we there enough that the community can take, uh, take this vote? 'Cause, you know, part of the question is, uh, well, maybe you don't know, but part of the question is, um, like yes, okay, like the, the associados I 100% believe should be in charge of this at some point. Some people have expressed to me the doubt that, well, maybe the associados aren't quite ready for this. They don't fully understand. And there is an education thing at, at the very least there, because a lot of people don't know they can apply to, to be an associado. Just today, actually, this is worth reiterating. Just today I was talking to somebody who said they had a friend who was, um, uh, heavily involved in, um, organizing a related event in the area, uh, was a lead for many years, was a core contributor, and was very sad that because they weren't at elsewhere, they couldn't be a, an associado. That is not true. The criteria say if you've been a lead in a- Related ev-- or in, in an unrelated event in the area, you can apply to be an asociado and you do qualify to be an asociado. So if, if that's your case or if you know somebody who's in that case, please get them to apply. They can be an asociado. Um, we, we believe that people who have been leads have contributed a lot to this community. Like, those are the people we want to have as associados determining the direction of this, uh, uh, of this community. But if that bit of education isn't there yet, like, you know, there's a kind of engagement with the communi- uh, the community, education, learning that they really understand that they do have this power, and that is a kind of journey. And I'm a, I'm an impatient person, so I could try to, like, go as quickly as possible on this journey, but I also wanted to really listen to people, uh, because I heard some feedback that maybe I'm going a bit too fast with this, um, to hear what people want. And I mean, I am hearing that probably the, the middle option of the board selects some dates and the associados vote on, on them might be a good one. Um, and, um, yeah. Uh, does anybody want to add something to this? [chuckles] Um, and yeah, René-

René B: I'll say that I made sure my barrio leads applied. So they hadn't applied, and I pushed them, and then they applied. So now they're in.

Daniel T: Thank you. Uh, very helpful because, yeah, if they don't apply, they can't vote. And then... Like I-- what I hope and what we're hoping also with the working groups is that, like, you know, you can't know everything that happens in a community the size of, uh, of this community, and there's gonna be some stuff that happens, and you, like, you find out about it later. But, um... And maybe you disagree with the outcome. But so long as it was transparent and you could have participated, you could have added your voice, you could have influenced the decision, you just didn't get around to it 'cause you were too busy and you didn't want to join Discord and whatever, you have your reasons, then you can still stand behind the results and say, "I... Well, I could have participated in this. I didn't," whatever. "Okay, fine. I'll, mmnh, I'll get behind the decision." What I find really disempowering is when there's a decision that happens, and I couldn't have participated in it 'cause I didn't know it was happening. The working group was not, not visible. The decision happened without any emails or any communications, and it was just made, then I don't feel like, you know, in support of that, that decision, even if I agree with it. [chuckles] So, uh, I'm hoping the transparency of the working groups can, can help a lot with that. [notification sound] Uh, Oliver. Would you prefer to be called Olivier? You, do you prefer to be called Ancor or Olivier?

Olivier (Ankhor): Uh, I don't mind. You decide.

Daniel T: All right.

Olivier (Ankhor): Like, it's a French version. If you can articulate one way or the other.

Daniel T: Olivier then.

Olivier (Ankhor): Um, so I'm not sure I understand why we want the board to pre-select some date before the final vote. Can you clarify that?

Daniel T: Yeah. So the, mm... Like, uh, there's two, two angles that I-- two justifications I can see for that. One is, um, sort of consideration for the people doing the voting to not drown them with a vote like the name vote, which we all remember in our deepest nightmares, where we had to rank 26 name options, some of which were very similar to each other, and then re-rank them in the opposite s- direction. Uh, like, I don't know, I still have, like, flashbacks of this. Um, so one of them is like, you know, it's nicer to have a list of, say, five, maybe ten options rather than, um, um, like, you know, 30 options that you now need to rank, like, from one to 30. That seems, like, a bit, a bit intense. Um, and the other one, just being perfectly honest, is, is, I think, fear-based, um, of being afraid that the community might pick a v-- a, a date that's really, uh, not, not the right date. I don't subscribe to that one, but, you know, I, I, I can see why some people might be like, "Well, you know..." I mean, you know, there is definitely a, a, a history in this continent at least of people, uh, making, uh, choices, uh, through the, like, pseudo-democratic means in a, in a certain country on an island that maybe caused-- like, maybe weren't fully considered. Uh, personally, as I said, I come from Switzerland. We vote on, like, 30 things a year, and, you know, the sky hasn't fallen yet. Um, so I think people can be h- like, trusted to make votes, even very large numbers of people, even millions of people, so long as you give them good information. And I actually have, [notification sound] like, I have this letter from my, from Switzerland. It's, like, quite thick. There's a booklet in there that informs me of what I'm going to vote on, and I'll be able to, like, you know, leaf through it and make an informed choice, even though I'm not following Swiss politics. And I think we can reach that level of information, especially with AI. I'll hand over to Condor. I hope that answers your question, Olivier.

Condor: I, I... Yeah. To follow on from that, I sort of assumed the reason why someone might want the vote to eliminate options is because I guess the whole vote is gonna boil down to two things, two s- two, two kind of things that people are gonna vote on. Um, one is, like, you're looking at higher, kind of higher level things where you're thinking of the big picture, what's best for the event overall, um, which is thinking, like, sustainable, you know, what dates are gonna make people go. And, um, what I was having a slight rant about on Discord was, I think actually the date we choose may have a massive difference to growth going forward. Um, and that's... So that's kind of like on one level, people may vote on these kind of, like, higher, more philosophical, kind of, um, more aspirational things where they're thinking the big picture, not themselves. But then-- And so that's maybe why you assume that the, the board might take out some options because they're probably the ones who at least have a very good idea of what do we need to do to survive or to grow as a community. Um, whereas a lot of the associados, it's gonna be a bit more filtered down. Like, some of us are gonna be active on Discord in this kind of meeting. We're gonna know a lot of the more complex pictures, whereas- Where some people are just gonna think like, "Oh, well, what suits me and perhaps like my camp?" Like, what, what can we go to? Um, what works in terms of my personal situation? So it would be a kind of like a two-step thing, but I think that's maybe why people would assume the vote, the board would do something like that.

Daniel T: Thank you. Uh, handing over to Ellen.

Ellen (Dr Plantes): Yeah. Um, I'm wondering, have we decided whether no change is an option?

Daniel T: So if we... So it, it dep- [laughs] it depends. I mean, I think, um, if we, um, uh, if we take the, the option that the vote pre-selects the options, then no change would not be an option. If we take the broader, um, uh, set of choices, then it would of course be an option. Um, the question is, do we want to have in the set of choice... I mean, it, it, it is certainly part of the, the, the survey, to correct Olivia there. It is part of the survey. We are gonna try and see where people want. Like, we're gonna include it in the survey, um, like the no change. But, um, it is, um, like it is not a, a recom- like the board would not recommend this. You would get like at least six board members, I think, voting against it. Um, maybe a unanimous vote against it because, like, it, it just feels very risky to stay. Like, again, we should have been canceled three times this year. Um, [laughs] we should-

Ellen (Dr Plantes): Yes, I did see that giant plume of smoke and the ashes raining down on us.

Daniel T: But like-

Ellen (Dr Plantes): Yes. [laughs]

Daniel T: The... By law, we should have been canceled, and then practically, we literally during build had a fire heading towards us and had ash falling on the site during the build. I don't know if everybody knows that, but like, you know, there was literally ash falling on us. Now, the-- it worked out that that fire didn't come close enough to force us to evacuate, but there was literally a fire coming towards us and dropping ash on the site. So, you know, [laughs] it's, uh, it was a, it was a fiery summer. Um, so yes, the, the-- in the survey, the, the date will still be there. If we do the restricted date sets, then it wouldn't be there in the final vote. If we do the expanded date set where everything is available, then it would still be there in the final vote. Uh, personally, I would strongly advise us not to vote to keep the event on the same date.

Ellen (Dr Plantes): I think-

Daniel T: But there's also... But, but even in, if... So if we do a ranked voting, there's also the option, uh, uh, as far as understanding how the ranked voting algorithm works, there's also the option that no option gets more than 50% of the vote at any rank, in which case that's a null vote, where all options have been rejected. So in a way, there's always that option by just saying, "I reject all the options." Um, hope that answers your question. And handing over to Anna.

Anna T: Yeah. Just, um, thinking about, uh, there's this sense of like, yeah, what, what do we want? And then there's also what we can, uh, get a permit for because, uh, the, the timeline around like the environmental, uh, agencies, um, I don't know the names for the-

Daniel T: INAGA

Anna T: ... the kind of... INAGA, yeah, the, the kind of authorities on there. So there's just to like factor into the discussion we're having now that there's, um, a, a portion of this that is us choosing our preferred dates, but then there will be a portion of like, uh, being able to get a permit. I mean, it seems, uh... Yeah, 'cause there's a, there's a few factors into that as well, which could then say that the dates that have been, uh, preferred, you know, maybe it's gonna be number three instead of two or one or something because actually we couldn't get a permit for, for that for some reason. Yeah, just bringing that in.

Daniel T: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Like I've-- there's so many th-things. I forgot that particular one. Uh, the, um... So to clarify for people who don't know, INAGA is an environment, environmental eng-agency. They look at things like bird nesting schedules and things like that. Um, and they do an environmental assessment and, uh, decide whether it's a good idea to have a bunch of hippies with very, very loud speakers in the area like at that time of the year. Uh, there are birds nesting about 800 meters away from our current site. There are birds nesting also fairly close to the new site. Uh, w- I believe we've applied to find out if we can, uh, use a vari- like a whole variety of dates for both sites for next year. But it's the middle of the summer in Spain. INAGA at best takes one to three months to respond. Um, we-- you can find on the event dates site, on the event dates page on, uh, on our, on, on Nobody's a team, there's a subpage for the, the bird nesting schedules. You can find all the information we've been able to gather, but we don't know what INAGA will decide. We're trying to get ahold of whatever document authorized, um, uh, was, uh, uh, an, uh, another event in the region, uh, some time ago because whatever reasoning they used to authorize that could be useful to try and guess what they might authorize, authorize next time. But there is the possibility that, you know, the number one vote is last week of May, let's say, and INAGA says, "No, actually, that's the, like the most critical period for, um, uh, birds to like make their nests and stuff. You can't do an event at that, that date." The advantage of doing the vote anyway before that is that as long as it's not all the dates that we suggested that get ruled out by INAGA, then as soon as the INAGA report comes in, we've got the top ranked vote, uh, top ranked date of the remaining dates. And we want to know as, like, like we-- I think we'll be- a lot, a lot of people on, on the board and off the board believe that, um, it would be really helpful to know as soon as possible what the dates are gonna be next year because a lot of us plan our year around those dates. A lot of, um, suppliers need to be contacted and like plans need to be made. Uh, other burns might adjust their dates based on what dates we select. Um, there's- A, a lot of, lot of impact of, uh, of this date, and knowing it as early as possible makes a big difference to a lot of people. So we try-- we're trying to get that information as quickly as possible. But the INAGA report is definitely out of our hands, so thanks for reminding us of that. Anything else, Anna?

Anna T: No, no. Yeah, just to clarify. So it, yeah, it could be... It, it makes sense to me that, uh, we wouldn't wait for a report and then organize a vote because a vote takes time. But then we have the community's preference, but then we get the possibility literally whether we can get a permit to do it then. So then a decision can get made quite, uh, quickly then and announced. Yeah, that makes sense.

Daniel T: Cool. Anyone else? Maybe we've talked enough about bird nesting schedules and dates. Um, in case you have further thoughts about this later, there is already a channel on the Discord called Event Dates, and it's very mysterious, um, uh, which has a, a thread inside where we're talking about the poll and the survey and so on. Uh, there will be a work group once we have, uh, the working group functionality set up. Um, and there is again, uh, on the... Let me just show you so it's cl- uh, uh, visible to everybody. But if I just share my screen, uh, this entire screen here. Um, if you go-- You can see my screen, yeah? Yeah. If you go here under Event, you go to 2027 dates. There's a lot of information here about the dates. We're putting together this, uh, these tables. There's also like the fi- You can see that the fire risk... So these are the, the actual alerts, and we checked the alerts criteria have not changed year on year. So all that's happened is that the alerts have spread around and gotten earlier, um, and there's more and more red and yellow. There's not been any green this year, actually. Um, and you can also see, yeah, like this charted in various different ways. Um, you can, uh, see also the weather here, like what the, what is the weather like across the range of plausible dates and the amount of, uh, rain that there is. And we're still working on protecting other birds and finding out the impact. And also finally, the bird nesting, which here there's a page where you can find out more than you ever wanted to know about bird nesting schedules in, uh, uh, Montegros and nearby. Um, which still doesn't tell us exactly when we can actually have an event, unfortunately. Um, it just tells us that there's... Actually, the conclusion from looking at the information that is available is that we should not be allowed, allowed to run an event in July. So [chuckles] it's not the most useful. So hence why I'm very curious if we can get the reports that allowed an event in July before to find out why they allowed an event in July, even though there are birds, young birds in the area. Um, yeah. Thank you, Olivier. And if you want to, um... And I need to log in. Uh, log out. Yeah. So if you want to participate, just jump into the Event Dates channel, or it will be in a working group soon. Um, ping me, ping Olivier, ping Celine, ping Peter K. Uh, we're all really, like, caring about making, like, providing enough information there. I'm really hoping to be able to... Like, we wanna send both the survey, like the human survey and the Google Form survey at the same time to avoid drowning people in too many waves of polls and surveys and stuff. 'Cause we wanna avoid the situation where an associado who's quite distracted, like maybe a barrio lead who's had a lot of partying this year and a lot more partying is going to Burning Man and stuff, thinks they've voted, but they haven't voted because they just voted on a survey rather than on the, the actual vote. So we thought, let's just have one round with the humans and Google Docs, uh, Google Forms, and then the next round is an associado vote, whatever that ends up being. Uh, so that's the thinking. I'm really hoping that can get that out by the end of the weekend. Uh, it depends on me being able to deploy stuff to humans, which I'm very, very close with Peter's help. Um, so okay. Um, it's 9:05. It's been just over an hour. Thank you so much, everybody, for joining and for offering your opinion. Uh, it's super helpful to get to hear from people, uh, rather than trying to guess whether, like how you want to be asked. It's really nice to be, uh, to be told by, by the members, by the dedicated members who are logging in in mid-August to talk about, uh, event dates for next year. So thank you so much. [notification sound] Have a lovely... Oh, João, you wanna say something before we finish?

João T: Yeah. I literally got informed about this meeting when you posted it, like the minute it was starting. Uh, I don't know if we know when the next meetings are gonna happen. If we could know that in advance, maybe if it's gonna be every other Thursday or something like that, it would help to plan.

Daniel T: João, I do believe that I added you to the community calls group on Discord as a, like... Because I wanted help in like-- 'cause I'm terrible with logistics and managing these kind of things. There's a few people there. Some of them are taking a much needed break. But if you're feeling the tension about this, please help clarify ahead of time and so that we like... 'Cause I tend to get really busy with a bunch of stuff, and then I remember like, "Oh, the, on Wednesday, shit, I have a meeting." Like, we need to talk about the community call, and then on Thursday I'm really busy, and then finally I make an announcement and stuff. I'm not the best person for this stuff, but maybe you are. And if it, if, if, if it's not João and if somebody else on this call is like, "Yeah, actually that's me. I'm super organized. I wanna sort that shit out," please, like let me know. [chuckles]

João T: Yeah. Well, it, it's good that you also made a call out for other people because like, I mean, I am a person that likes pointing out problems and things, and when I see the solution that I can help, I, I will promptly offer to help. But like, again, if I'm not proposing the calls or I'm not involved in, in this, like, again, I will try to help though. But [notification sound] I do think that, yeah, advertising this in advance or maybe coming up with a, a schedule every other Thursday or whatever would be helpful for everyone.

Daniel T: Yeah. I've just checked and you are in the group, so thanks for your help. Olivier?

Olivier (Ankhor): If the point of this is just creating an event on Discord, a recurring event, I don't mind.

Daniel T: No, it's, it's, it's more actually like, um, making sure that the recurring event is canceled if the, the call is not happening. Uh, making sure that there's an agenda published as early as possible so that people can choose whether they want to attend or not-

Olivier (Ankhor): Okay

Daniel T: ... whether it's interesting and so on. Like, there's a bit of pre-management rather than sort of cobbling something together on the day, like based on the conversation you've been having all week. This could be done ahead of time. It's just not something I'm very good at. Um, and luckily there's a lot of other people than me in this community. [chuckles]

Olivier (Ankhor): And we speak about community call, right?

Daniel T: Sorry, what?

Olivier (Ankhor): No. And we speak about community call channel. Is that correct? Or is there another group for that?

Daniel T: The, uh, we... Sorry, I, I couldn't understand this. It keeps cutting off.

Olivier (Ankhor): Sorry. I was saying, uh, speak about it, community call channel.

Daniel T: I, I s- I still can't hear anything. Can you type it? Like, it keeps cutting out while you're speaking. Thanks, Alan. Okay, you'll type it on, on Discord. Um, yeah. Cool. We'll sync up on Discord. Okay. Thank you very much, everybody. Have a lovely Thursday and, uh, check your email by the end of the weekend. Hopefully, you'll get an email with a survey, and forward it to all your friends, um, so they can all vote on the date for next year's event. [chuckles] All right. Cool. Take care. Bye, everyone. [notification sound]