Event Dates Working Group Meeting Transcript

Celine V: Go again. Sorry, needed a quick bio break.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Celine V: Good. How do you feel? Still energized?

Daniel T: Yeah. Yeah.

Celine V: Nice.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Olivier: Well...

Daniel T: Hi, Olivier. We didn't really hear you-

Olivier: Hey

Daniel T: ... in the previous one.

Olivier: Yeah, I know. I was just listening. That was on purpose. If, if you want a longer break, like have a glass of water or something, please go.

Celine V: Yes, absolutely agreed.

Daniel T: I'll have a glass of water.

Celine V: Feel free to, to go ahead, get hydrated. yeah, I think, we can, we can in general slowly get started, but feel free to just briefly drop a message if you feel like you need another break. I do have the feeling that we might not need the whole hour. basically for me, there are, the two polls.

Daniel T: It might be worth-

Celine V: That I briefly wanted to check in. Yeah, go ahead

Daniel T: ... it might be worth me sharing the update that's, like, still- ... evolving about the general shape-

Celine V: That would be nice

Daniel T: ... shape of it. So I've had some conversations and, and, like, your, your input is also welcome on this. I haven't... didn't get a chance to ask, - ... you, Celine and Olivier, but I spoke to Peter earlier today, and one of the questions that arose for me over the weekend, also seeing Peter's reaction on the community call last week, Peter Dryer, was- ... like, okay, but like, you know, how... I- is it the right thing, like this kind of thing there? I mean, clearly we do need to change the event dates. like we... I mean, clearly I, I th- people who are closest to the matter believe that there's a very high chance that we'll get canceled next year if we keep to the same dates. So, you know, it, it, it feels, unwise to ignore that. I think that if we are gonna change the dates, then changing them sooner is probably better to give people the time to adopt, adapt, to give other events the time to adapt. There's like, there's a lot of impacts of changing the dates of an event like, Nowhere or Elsewhere. And, but the mechan- the exact mechanism of the change, like I've gone for... Like my m- my, my goal has been to try and empower people to use the, this, this, this muscle of making decisions, like empower the members to, to do that. Like I want ultimately this to be an association of its members, where the board is there to serve the members, not to tell the members what to do, where, the, the members have the ultimate control over the- ... the, the organization. And so seeing, okay, there's an urgent event dates decision, there's the, the, process by which members can make decision. It made sense to me, okay, bring the two together. over the weekend, I've asked a few more people for feedback. I've had a mixed feedback. I've had one person, one core community member tell me that they do think there should be a binding vote at the general assembly. I've had some tell me that they think the board should decide. Everybody's very positive about like, you know, getting feedback through polls and, things like that. Like the getting community input is definitely, - ... absolutely no-brainer, thumbs up. Like I would call it a critical piece of information to make a good decision anyway. But, that's definitely a thumbs up. But what's currently under question, and I will bring up in the, the director's, the, the, the board, meeting at, in about an hour. No, two, two, no, an hour after this one, after we finish. Well, assuming we finish in an hour, maybe in two hours, will be like what should be the format of the decision itself. And I kind of see three options. I think it was three. One is the, the poll. We do the multi-level poll, but then the poll, the, the, the... even the vote of the Associados is advisory, and the board decides after receiving all this information. I don't like that because it's the board making the decisions again, but like there's a sense in that because the board is gonna really care about like analyzing the information and stuff. I personally trust the Associados to make an informed decision, but like there's variety of, perspectives on this. option two would be to have the board pre-select dates that aren't terrible choices. And then the, the, the, the members make a vote between those. Like, for example, is it la- last week of May or first week of June or second week of June? Those are probably like, we might have preferences towards some, but none of those are terrible choices. whilst middle of July, like even later than we are right now, is obviously a terrible choice, so probably we, like, you know, we could, cut those, those bad options out. And the, the third option is just a completely free poll where people can choose whatever dates they want, which is kind of the way that we have the poll right now. But like, yeah, yeah, and, and then, you know- ... it, in, in both option two and option three, it is a binding decision of the general assembly. But in option two, it's from a restricted choice, and from option three, it's from a, a, a broader choice, which includes bad options. I don't know what the board will want. I haven't discussed it with them yet. Meeting is in two hours. But that's, that, that's my update. That's where we are in terms of the actual exact form of the vote, which doesn't change our job to gather as much information as possible from as broad a number of people as possible, but it does change the maybe final result of it, like the final decision-making process. And that's my update done.

Celine V: Yeah. Thanks a lot. Actually, very interesting thoughts. And to be honest, I will get started with that. I think all three could work, right? So for me, I don't have like a super hard opinion on it. The only thing that I agree with when I was making the poll that would go out is if you look at it in the preview, you put yourself into the feet of the people that have to choose. It is many, many, many options, and people might just tend to go for their personal preference because it's an overload of information, right? There is, wildfire risk and so on and so on, and they will just be like, "Oh, June is perfect for me." and I think we will have a bit this bias if we have too many ch- too many options. so that's the only thing, - That comes to my mind to give you maybe on the way for your discussion. But once again, super fine with whatever you decide, as all could work for me. Not sure if you, Olivier and Peter have some thoughts there.

Olivier: Well, I think like anything could work. My general speaking if, is that if we don't want people to take-- to vote for something, like let's say for example, that the 15th of August is a very bad day that we don't want it to exist, we should take it out from the votes. Like it shouldn't be in the poll at the beginning. which made me realize something which is a tiny detail. the form that we are sending is called da-date selection. What I was thinking, it, it was, it was like more like a probing of how much of the community will we lose if we move the date to some other part of the year.

Daniel T: Yeah. So-

Olivier: Maybe-

Daniel T: Some- somebody on the weekend had this feedback as well, that like, if we, like, let's say we probe the, the collaborators. That's why I did a column to your thing, saying, "I will not come." because if we probe the, the collaborators, for example, which are core members that we need most- ... of them to be able to turn up, and like half of the 100 say they're not gonna come on this d- on this day, if it's on this day, then we can't run the event on this day- ... 'cause we don't have the people. So-

Celine V: Yep

Daniel T: ... that is a useful piece of information. But the preferences is also kind of nice, I think, like knowing- ... where, which day. Because it, it might be that enough people can come on several dates, and then it might be helpful for us to know what date people prefer. Maybe, maybe peop- maybe we can have the event on, again, like last week of May, first week of June, like so 24th, 31st or, or 7th. Maybe all three are, are possible and all three are approved by INAGA and like, you know, everything checks out. But like, you know, 90% of members prefer the first week of June or the last week of May or whatever, and then, you know, that's a useful piece of information if we have like a massive clear preference for one thing. So positive is also useful, is what I'm saying.

Celine V: Yep, I like that. Yeah, thanks for adding it. Makes sense. So we would, have a title such as Date Preferences or something like that instead of Date Selection. Is that what you meant, Olivier? Just so-

Olivier: Yeah. Yeah

Celine V: ... Peter, yeah.

Olivier: I, I want them to read the form and to answer it as is. Like I'm not choosing the date from nowhere-

Celine V: Yeah

Olivier: ... or elsewhere, I'm just like saying when I could be there.

Celine V: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and feel free to... Maybe there is even a better term than preferences, or availability. I don't know. Yeah. Feel free to change it as well, but I, I get your point. Yeah. okay. I think you made another very good point in the chat or on Discord before Olivier, was the strike, right? It's not only the availability. We don't... Or strike and build actually both, during these event dates, but also before and after. do you think we should just add... Yeah, go ahead.

Olivier: Yeah. Just scroll down a little bit. So I didn't change your first question at all, because- ... I, I don't know. But go down a bit more.

Celine V: Oh. Yeah. I think you did.

Olivier: I've added two question. The first one is, how do you define yourself? Like are you- ... a builder or a striker? And I made a difference between builder for the camp and builder for the org, because one is one week, the other one is two-week engagement. and the rest is pretty classical. And I consider the strike to be only one week, because we need like 30 to 50 people for the first week, and then we just need like 15-ish people. So I consider this will be okay, should be- ... okay. We can have the big force first. and then you have another question, yeah, which is basically the same that you did. But the, the only difference is, I will come to the event, I will come two week earlier, one week earlier, and one week after. I just did that like a few minutes ago, so I might need to rephrase it, but that's- ... the overall idea.

Celine V: I like it. Yeah.

Daniel T: I think the, the question instead of a „Unbenannte Frage" can be, "I will come to..." And then the answer's gonna be the event builds two weeks earlier, but-

Celine V: Yeah

Daniel T: ... one year strike, not at all.

Celine V: Can still make it a bit leaner.

Daniel T: Or nothing is the last one.

Celine V: Something like that, right?

Daniel T: Yeah. Yeah.

Celine V: Yeah. makes total sense. And I think once again or even more now, we see that if you have all these dates-

Daniel T: Yeah.

Celine V: This will take you quite some time to, to reply to it, right? So I think we, as we're super engaged now, and I would really go through it and have all the... But I think we're, yeah, the edge case in that, in that sense.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Celine V: Yeah.

Daniel T: Especially this, this is meant to be the, the, the wide poll that goes to everybody that's, -

Celine V: Yeah

Daniel T: ... even other burns and stuff like that.

Celine V: So very true. So, Daniel, maybe the solution is also to include this part down here in the one that we send out through the Humans app, right? I mean, if we decide to do so and so on. But do we really need this for the broad community? Because I'm not sure if you read the intro text, but I also said like if you have a Humans, app account, then don't reply to this poll, but go-

Daniel T: There, there will, there will be people who are in the community who don't have a Humans account yet, and I don't think we want to-

Celine V: Okay

Daniel T: ... require them to have-

Celine V: Okay

Daniel T: ... a Humans account to do this.

Celine V: Okay.

Daniel T: but I think we should probably add an option to the, the check, check ma- checkboxes there, like, you know, someone from another burn, which is- ... you know, we welcome your, your inputs even if you're from another burn.

Celine V: Yeah.

Daniel T: Just might be nice to be able to categorize it.

Celine V: Say that again. Sorry, I didn't understand the last point. If you could repeat

Daniel T: ... it would be good in... If you scroll down to the- ... like I define myself as. there would be also an option of, a participant of another burn.

Celine V: Oh.

Daniel T: ... which that would not be an option in the humans poll, but it should be here.

Celine V: Yep. Yep, yep. Makes sense. -

Daniel T: I-

Celine V: Stupid question. I thought everybody who has bought the ticket has a humans app account. That's wrong then?

Daniel T: I, I'm not sure, to be honest. Let me ask Peter.

Celine V: Because... Yeah, because I thought you can only get... But yeah, I might be super mistaken. That's why I assumed that everybody who was actually a participant this year would at least be able to reply through the humans app account. But yeah, sorry, somebody wanted to say something. I think I interrupted. Okay. Yeah. Maybe we can clarify that, but yeah. Olivier, sorry.

Olivier: Yeah, yeah. No, I, I like your, your proposal of putting something like a participant from another burn. my question is, do we wanna change that saying, like, "I plan to come to Nowhere '27?" S- yes, no? 'Cause this will give us the hint of like you're answering this question. You're saying like, "No, I don't want to come to Nowhere, but I'm still entering the poll because it might clash with my event," which is like Burning Man, Nest, Crème Brûlée, whatever. why I'm saying that about is because if I answer that to myself, I am a participant of another burn. I am doing Strike. I'm, I'm doing event.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Olivier: And it might be misleading.

Daniel T: So, so then the first one changes from an event participant to, someone who wants to come to Nowhere '27, or Elsewhere '27 for now.

Olivier: That's fine.

Daniel T: Until we get the name, if we get the name.

Celine V: Okay, something like come... Hopla.

Olivier: Go for it.

Celine V: Oh, you're on it as well? Sorry.

Olivier: I let you do it. That's why we...

Celine V: I will come to... And we can still rephrase it, huh?

Daniel T: So, so some, some... I define myself as someone who will come to, who wants to come- ... to Elsewhere '27.

Celine V: I define myself. Is to come to...

Daniel T: Yay.

Celine V: And then the other one would be as someone who-

Daniel T: No, no, it's already... Like we don't think we need another one.

Celine V: Oh, so we leave that one?

Daniel T: 'Cause if they, yeah, if they, if they're a participant of another burn-

Celine V: Okay

Daniel T: ... but they don't tick someone who wants to come to Elsewhere '27, then by definition they don't want to come.

Celine V: No, but that's a bit... -huh. Okay.

Olivier: And you can-

Celine V: I thought that's what you said before, Olivier. You can still be, you know, going to another burn. -

Daniel T: Yeah. But so if they tick that and they don't tick the someone who wants to come to Elsewhere, then there's somebody from another burn who just cares about updates.

Celine V: Good. So you can do multiple select, right?

Daniel T: Yeah.

Olivier: Yeah.

Celine V: Is that what you're saying?

Daniel T: Yeah.

Celine V: Okay. Perfect. Good. Any other thoughts?

Daniel T: I-

Peter K: I've, I've talked... So I haven't been able to talk directly to the organizers of the new Portuguese burn called Flamingalo. Someone has offered on Discord to put me in contact. I've talked directly to Eric from the Norwegian, small Norwegian burn. He doesn't even know if they'll have it next year, so that doesn't seem to be a problem. I'm, I'm still trying to basically get direct contacts to different burn organizers to see their opinion, but for now, no one has had a strong reaction. I think a lot of those events don't actually really have overlap with us. They're doing their own local event. They don't necessarily go to Nowhere. And, yeah, I'm,... We just had a big, local event here for the eclipse. That took all my time and attention, so I'm gonna get back to trying to reach, directly the organizers of, of, of a burn events in Europe. Romanian burn seems really small and not really concerned with us. I guess we're mainly, you know, trying not to step on Kiez Burn and Borderland and Cambodia.

Celine V: Yeah, Olivier?

Olivier: if you want, as all these event are official event, burn event, we can send an email to regional contact. and if you want, like if you draw something, I can shoot it to every regional contact saying like, "Hey, if your event is not listed the date from '27, come back to us quickly."

Celine V: That would be great.

Olivier: That-

Celine V: Yeah.

Olivier: Yeah.

Peter K: Yeah, let's do that one.

Olivier: It, it, -

Daniel T: I, I-

Olivier: If you're happy to draft the mail, it costs me nothing to send it. If you want me to do the full thing, that's an option too.

Daniel T: S- I, I would say send it with the poll. So once we have this poll, 'cause then you can say like, "If you are..." like, you know, "You can also send this to your members to get them to, to, to help influence our dates."

Celine V: I like that.

Daniel T: That, that might get them to-

Olivier: If-

Daniel T: ... to tell their members about us.

Olivier: I, I'm happy to send it, this twice, like first time without the poll and another one with the poll. Up to you.

Daniel T: I'm not the one writing or sending the email, so I'll let somebody else make that decision.

Peter K: Yeah. I think let's get the, let's get the poll first, I think.

Celine V: Yeah, I also tend to only send one, one email if, you agree as well, so we don't overwhelm them. And I think the most important point is to get information through the poll for our community, right? And for our event. So if we can- ... bundle that together. Y- did you still have your hand up, Olivier? Do you have another point?

Olivier: No, I'm good. Sorry.

Celine V: Okay. All good.

Daniel T: I just wanted to add to your list, Peter, a very important one, which is Burning Nest. - Where I think the answer might be actually quite counterintuitive-

Olivier: I understand. Yeah

Daniel T: ... they might really like the fact that we're moving our dates because they might swap.

Olivier: Yeah. That's very true.

Daniel T: And, and that would be actually a really cool thing to be able to say, like, you know, "Oh, if we move to this date close to Burning Nest, they'll take the July date." And that's-- That would be an interesting piece of information for people to know.

Olivier: And we-- I mean, this is not directly related, but just for the funny anecdote, we've, discussed with someone from Flamingello from doing mutual embassies so that Flamingello could have like a mini Barrio at Nowhere and vice versa to do a little bit of cultural exchange. But that's not, that's not priority, but I think it could be nice to have some, cross-pollination between the burns.

Daniel T: We've lost Olivier.

Celine V: Yeah. I think the connection wasn't-

Daniel T: Yeah

Celine V: ... too good there. Okay.

Daniel T: Yeah. We haven't-

Celine V: Yeah. I really like that. That would be a positive message, right? It would not only be changing the dates, but really, being a bigger burn community, enabling the other burns, and they're enabling us and stuff. Yeah.

Daniel T: There, there is still an ambassador channel under areas, on the Discord because we tried to do that earlier this year. In fact, the last post on the ambassador's channel is from Olivier. Back in May.

Celine V: Okay. But so my understanding is a bit, and please, correct me if, if I'm wrong, but the discussion you'll be having, Daniel, with the board tonight, I think that will be an interesting piece of information for us, on how we move forward, right?

Daniel T: Yeah. Yes. I'd like there to be like... I, I want there to be clear alignment without like, you know, - ... sort of sudden declarations of not supporting the vote in the community calls. And, I'd like,... Yeah. I'd like there to be alignment or discussion or at least like some kind of process with a clear deadline for deciding, what is gonna be the exact mechanism. And I guess w- because the mechanism is not actually technically def... Well, first of all, it's not-- We don't have to make it a general assembly. It is a- ... a choice. I-- Like I feel like maybe we can... Like what I'm hoping for actually is that after the board meeting, every board member agrees to like contact five community members and ask them like how they think they want to be asked this- ... and offering them those three options. And, then, like, you know, I trust the, the, the, the rest of the board to like offer clear feedback, having talked to the community and just say like, "Yeah. Okay. This is what people I've spoken to want." And then, you know, we pick a, a choice that like we, we, we let the community choose how it wants to choose. See-

Celine V: Yeah. No, makes sense. And maybe, yeah, as I think this overflow of information is an, is an important one, maybe you can even, give them the, the, the link of the poll so they get a little bit of an imb- impression- ... about the, the information that they will have to handle, right? The number of dates.

Daniel T: Oh, yeah.

Celine V: So once again, tendency for me.

Daniel T: And I, and I will try to, yeah. And I will try to get, them to... Well, I mean, we can't yet cut down the list. I mean, there's some, some ones that we can probably cut down. I'll get them to agree to cut down the obvious, like pointless ones- ... like July and August, which are- ... obviously not, not worth having on there. But yeah.

Celine V: Yeah. But it's already a, a lot, right? If we cut down July and August, that would already be-

Daniel T: Yeah

Celine V: ... great. I mean, then it's half of the dates are out almost.

Daniel T: Yeah. Yeah. But I mean-

Celine V: Okay

Daniel T: ... I don't think I'm necessarily gonna get to the list of like, you know, top five dates or something by, by this meeting.

Celine V: Yep.

Daniel T: But yeah.

Celine V: Yep. Okay, great.

Olivier: Are you-

Celine V: But... Sorry. Yeah? Ah, you're back.

Olivier: Sorry.

Celine V: No worries.

Olivier: Yeah. Sorry for that. were you talking about like taking off a few dates?

Daniel T: Yeah. -

Celine V: Ye- yeah.

Daniel T: Yeah. So like I was saying that at the board meeting, so, Celine was asking what I in- intend to get from the board meeting, and I was saying that my hope is that, every board member is willing to go and speak to five community members to ask them how they want to be asked this. So we get the choice between like some more sense of what the community wants between options one, two, and three. but also agreement to just remove the dates that are obviously bad, like July and August, which are just worse fire risk than where we are now. I see you shaking your head, like, please say more.

Olivier: Yeah. Okay. So that's gonna be a little bit long story for that. I'm gonna try to keep it short-ish. So the goal of this whole process is to avoid, cancellation of an event. And if I think of the buying the new site, it means that we will settle somewhere for the next five to 10 years at least. So considering that and global warming, that makes me think that we cannot stay in the Monegros in, June, July, and August. But if we want to keep Nowhere as a big event, and by big event I mean over 1,500, which might be needed for financial reason and for like the whole survival of Nowhere, of Elsewhere, we might need to change region instead of changing the date. And that's why, what I like about this poll is that we get information taking off the question of like where the event happen. if we know if the result of this is that we have to stay in July and August, we might want to change the place of the event. I know there was a form, one year and a half, two years ago, and I answered it saying like, "Yes, I want to keep the Monegros landscape because I love the Monegros, because I've been there for the past 15 years, and that's part of Elsewhere and Nowhere." My point is that we know that we know what does it mean to risk a cancellation of the event, maybe we might have to move.

Daniel T: Okay. I mean, I think if I, if I throw that into the board meeting, probably Pablo's going to explode....

Olivier: That's why I'm not throwing that publicly on Discord before, like trying to phrase it in a good enough way.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Celine V: Yeah.

Olivier: And you, you got the raw version

Daniel T: But yeah, I mean, okay, so it could be that we keep that date, but then we make it clear in the poll that if the date stays in July, we probably need to find a different site, which I don't know-

Celine V: Yes, that we somehow... Oh, sorry, Daniel

Daniel T: ... in France. Like probably. May-maybe even France wasn't good enough for July. They had loads of fires like near Bordeaux and stuff. So actually, like should we go to Sweden or something? I hear they have some sites there.

Celine V: Zurich.

Daniel T: I know.

Celine V: Might be a little bit expensive, but maybe one addition, just that we're on one page here. We do somehow indicate that we stay in the Monegros Desert in the poll, because the data that we provide, the heat, the cancellation risk, and so on, I mean, this all indicates that we're staying there. I mean, of course not at the same site, right, but in the same region. So I disagree a little bit with the, that the poll is that open. yeah.

Daniel T: P- Peter, you, you've, you've put enormous amounts of time into land and like all this stuff as well. Like please share your opinion about this.

Peter K: Well, the, the, the first thing I was going to say is simply from a practical point of view, we need an answer for next year, and if we were changing regions, we're not gonna do it between now and, you know, the next 10 months. So we do still need this poll for, for 2027. I think changing, area is a much, is a much longer term thing, right? But also, right now, so we just had, an event for, for the eclipse. The eclipse happened to be in August, but we saw two other events for the eclipse that were, for example, one was way up in the Pyrenees and one was in like, closer to the Atlantic Coast. They both got their licenses, taken from them and had to cancel, and then joined forces with us because of the, the heatwave and the fire risk. So the other region in summer doesn't, doesn't seem safe. I have a burner guest here from Toulouse who's telling me that it was, 30 degrees up in the Pyrenees as she was driving through the Pyrenees yesterday, and that it looked as yellow and, and sad as down, down from the Pyrenees. I still think whatever region in Spain, is not gonna be safe in J- in, in July, August. And even if it seems safe, the local authorities might not be giving permits.

Daniel T: Wow. So they, they got canceled because of a red plus alert, basically. So-

Peter K: Red, yeah, a bunch of,... And, and they were well-established psytrance events. They are usually in the same area. This, other psytrance festival called Aura got canceled, not so long ago also for due to fire risk just when they were supposed to start. So I, I, I... I still think we're way safer with dates than region.

Daniel T: Can you please send me the information about this? 'Cause I wanna include it on the info page. Like, you know, here's examples of events that have been canceled, like, and big events, traditional established, et cetera, and they still got canceled because of the fire risk. and congratulations on not getting canceled, by the way. Don't know how you managed it. Did you have like-

Peter K: Well, it's because we were- ... we were in the bug- buggiest, muggiest, most humid part of Spain. Covered in insects.

Daniel T: We just need to have-

Peter K: But we weren't canceled.

Daniel T: We just need to have like, elsewhere in a mosquito nest.

Peter K: It, e-exactly.

Daniel T: And then we'll be fine.

Celine V: There we go.

Peter K: So we were, we were in a mosquito nest called the Delta de l'Ebre because it happened to be on the path of the totality. And, and we, we rented a, a, a campsite, which was great production-wise 'cause they had everything. They had permits, fire risk, everything. They, they was key in hand, so it was great. We didn't have to touch a single thing. it was incredibly hot and, we were just covered in flies for a week, and it was pretty rough. But we saw the eclipse, and that was great.

Celine V: At least, at least you deserved it.

Peter K: Yes.

Celine V: Okay. good. But I think we got a bit the discussion, out of this, this is a general poll. For now it isn't, right? because we have the indication about the, Monegros region there. But, I, I do think it's important now that Daniel, you take it to the board and we know how to proceed. I think we already have quite some information. I think we're a efficient group, the four of us, to push this forward and, once we know the process and how we should go about it, about, between these three options, I'm sure we will be pretty quick to set stuff up.

Daniel T: Okay.

Celine V: Olivier?

Olivier: quick question. I've heard that the poll on Humans is slightly different. is it accessible? Can-- Like what are the difference?

Daniel T: So the difference is gonna be like, well, just imagine, I haven't set it up yet, but, there's a survey functionality on Humans that Peter built. Of course, he built a survey functionality. And, the advantage is that it will only allow people who are registered on Humans to vote. So there, like whilst with the general Google Docs poll and stuff, anybody could vote. They could vote multiple times. I could vote like 15 times. I have as many emails as I want. the, like... And, and, and because of GDPR, it's probably not a great idea for us to collect email addresses and stuff. So we should just let Google handle the anonym-anonymization and not-

Celine V: Yep

Daniel T: ... worry too much about this. and, whilst on Humans, we, we know all the people who are, like they are registered on Humans. There's three and a half thousand people on there, so it is a substantial number of people. but it's not, just random anybody who gets the link. And I doubt that we're gonna see thousands of people sign up to, you know, to Humans to vote on this. And they actually need to be approved manually to do that. They have to put their legal name and all that kind of stuff. So yeah.

Olivier: If I rephrase my question, does the question in the form of Humans will be different?

Daniel T: Well, no, the goal would be to have the same question- ... on both.

Celine V: All good. Thanks.

Daniel T: I think the only difference would be that w-we're,... no, we can, we can still ask people whether they're planning to come to nowhere, to elsewhere 27. Actually, that still makes sense. Yeah.

Celine V: And can you create a human's account without having been to elsewhere?

Daniel T: Yeah, but there's a, there's a voting queue. Like, we can filter it so that it's only people whose accounts have gone through the, the approval process.

Celine V: Okay. Okay.

Daniel T: So-

Celine V: Yeah.

Daniel T: And, and if we see-

Celine V: Yeah. Nice

Daniel T: ... suddenly, like 500 accounts appear- ... we'll know that something's going on there.

Celine V: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Good. Though, but that's, that's good enough if we have this, mechanism. Perfect. Good. But then I think we don't have any open topics for today, right? Maybe Daniel, I would be very interested in a short update, once you feel like it's, it's ready, right, from the board or... I mean, you also said about reaching out and stuff, but either you can-

Daniel T: Yeah, I mean, I'll, I will publish minutes-

Celine V: Maybe in the-

Daniel T: ... hopefully tonight.

Celine V: Nice.

Daniel T: so you can- Like, I can send a link- ... on the governance, channel. Like, I think everybody will be, -

Celine V: Perfect

Daniel T: ... interested ... in what has been discussed in the governance-

Celine V: Yeah

Daniel T: ... on, on the board, on the- ... board meeting. so I'll post the link as soon as I've transcribed it. by the way, do you have any objection to minutes of this meeting being published? No? Cool.

Celine V: Nope.

Daniel T: Again, for... Like, I'm all for transparency. Like, I think Olivier, like even the fact that like you mentioned the thing, I think it's just, it's, it's okay. Like I'm, I'm sure it's not the first time somebody's thought about like, "Maybe we should do it somewhere else." but as Peter said, it's probably not gonna be for this year, even if we do decide to change. And actually- ... if that is something being discussed, that is really something we need to discuss urgently ra- like before going and spending a million pounds, or a million euros buying a s- a new site.

Celine V: Yeah.

Daniel T: So it should enter the collective consciousness soon rather than later.

Olivier: Yeah. That's my point. But it doesn't change anything for 27.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Olivier: It changed something for the buying of the land.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Olivier: But that's another topic, as Celine said.

Daniel T: Yeah. That's a separate work stream.

Celine V: Yep.

Daniel T: A separate working group that's not under any official charter, and yet- ... still somehow doing big work.

Celine V: Yep.

Daniel T: anyway. Sorry.

Celine V: another topic.

Peter K: It's almost like you can trust people.

Daniel T: What do you mean?

Peter K: What I mean is a trust-based system is working out for us, like actually in practice, where we're doing a lot of stuff without formalizing it. - Like I, I, I have a high level of trust in this community is what I'm saying.

Daniel T: Yeah, me too.

Celine V: I think it will be helpful if we get in the working group a bit of like a joint understanding of that, right? So when we talk about formalizing, what, what does that mean and where is it enabling and where is it just paperwork and too much and, not really enabling us? Okay, perfect. But then, yeah, thank you so much. Looking forward to reading the, the minutes. and then, yeah, let's just, be in contact through Discord, I guess, and see what tasks arise from, the board meeting.

Daniel T: All right. Cool.

Celine V: Nice. Have a good one. Have a good Monday.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Celine V: Bye everyone.

Daniel T: Cheers. Bye.

Celine V: Thank you.

Peter K: Thank you everyone.

Celine V: Thank you.