Community Meeting Transcript

Peter D: Howdy, howdy.

Matthew C: Hi, Peter.

Peter D: Any questions?

Matthew C: How are you?

Peter D: Oh, busy, busy, busy. Lots more to do still.

Matthew C: Are you back at your, your normal real t- day job?

Peter D: Um, about to start a new job actually. But, uh, yeah, it's been, uh, busy, and I go to Burning Man in two weeks, which I'm still figuring out the details for. In theory, I'm on a plane two weeks from right now, but I need to sort that out. Ugh, too many things. Life does not-

Peter D: ... yeah, anything fun since, uh, the Spanish heatwave for you?

Matthew C: Uh, yeah. I had a big birthday bash right afterwards with about, uh, 50 people invited. That was cool.

Peter D: Nice.

Matthew C: Um, but, uh, no, just after that it was just a bit of, uh, throwing myself in the, the nearest big river, um, just near... Well, there's, there's several big rivers that come, not the one right next to, but a bit further away. So I was stayed in the area for another week.

Peter D: Oh, nice.

Daniel T: Oh, hello. You are here. [laughs]

Peter D: Yeah, I figured I'd, you know, walk into the scene half an hour.

Daniel T: You're gonna be here just for half an hour?

Peter D: Well, it depends on how it goes.

Daniel T: All right. [laughs] [humming]

Peter D: Oh, we're good.

Daniel T: 10 minutes to chat about whatever we want, [laughs] except it is recorded. [laughs]

Peter D: Yes.

Daniel T: Hi, Ellen. How are you doing?

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Hello. How are you guys?

Daniel T: Are you good?

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Where's our wake music, Daniel?

Daniel T: Uh, it's, it's coming. It's coming.

Ellen / Dr Plantes: [laughs]

Daniel T: Um, the track is only four minutes long, so I'm-

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Oh, good, good, good

Daniel T: ... I'm gonna wait until like, you know, 8:00 PM to start playing it. But something that Nan and I have been working on. It's still a early draft, but I think it's nice.

Ellen / Dr Plantes: [laughs]

Daniel T: Doesn't, doesn't have any voice, but it's, uh-

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Very cool

Daniel T: ... it's, it's... We'll see. [laughs] I like it. It's important to like the music you're making, I think.

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Very.

Daniel T: [laughs]

Ellen / Dr Plantes: I'm gonna see if I can find headphones.

Daniel T: Hi, Celine.

Céline S: Hey there.

Daniel T: [humming] Well, you've got time, Ellen, because as usual we'll start at about five past. Sorry, but I've, I've added the, um... Actually, I'll wait until people have, are, are back on to, so I don't just repeat myself multiple times. [laughs] So you can only say things that you don't wanna say again later, unless you're okay to repeating yourself. Ah, Ward's note taker. Highest attendance of, of any, uh, any member of the NTA. [laughs]

Anna T: Can you put a link to the command?

Daniel T: Okay, time to play some music, I guess. Uh, let's see. [techno music] All right. Well, yeah, [chuckles] maybe we do get some vocals the next one. [chuckles] That's up to you. Um, all right. Welcome, everybody. Thank you very much for joining. Um, and, uh, sorry for-- Like, I wanna apologize for the kind of, uh, um, sort of short notice for this. Like, we were a bit more organized a couple of months before the event. Then about a month before the event, things got a bit chaotic. And then post-event, we're just still just getting our shit together, I think. Um, I've now updated the website, so the calls are listed there. I'm, um... Yeah, like, I'm, I'm gonna make sure it gets updated. And so, like, you can just look at the website or just scroll down a tiny bit, and you can see when the next call is. Um, I don't know if we're gonna have every week. We might, we might not. We haven't quite decided yet, but you can basically check the website to find out if there's a call. Uh, we'll, we'll do our best to keep that updated. Um, and so the, the agenda that I have, that, that we have for today is, uh, just a- Big things that are going on. Some of it is extracted from, uh, the coordinator's debrief that happened two days ago. Um, some of it's about the new dates vote. Uh, some of it is about various other random things. Um, and of course, if you have questions and stuff, anything you want to ask about, you can ask. You can do so at the end or in a topic if it makes more sense there. Uh, first, let's do the... Let's talk about the new dates vote, 'cause that's a big exciting thing going on. Uh, Celine, since you seem to have a good connection, do you want to take this one?

Céline S: Yeah, sure. Let me try. I hope there is not too much background noise. If there is so, just let me know. Um, so jointly with Danielle, we are, um, preparing an overview where you get, um, enough information about different criteria. So it's basically about the heat, the cold, the wildfire risk, other burns happening, and we would like to provide this, um, information, um, to three different groups. So first of all, to the community, so we want to do a community poll. You can basically send it to everyone you know, maybe also people from other burns, other festivals, um, and they will be able to vote on the dates. Um, then second, we would, um, send it to everybody who has a Nobody's account, so an actual login and had, um, or has already bought a ticket before. Um, so this is the second one, and then of course, to the general assembly. Sorry, a humans account. Um, and then the third one is then the general assembly, where there is the actual vocation on the dates. But for the general assembly, we would already have the indication of the first two polls. So we would actually see, um, what does the whole community think about the dates, then we would see what everybody thinks that has a, um, humans, uh, login. So which dates would they prefer, and then the general assembly can actually vote on the dates. And we will make sure to, um, update all this information, and then before the general assembly votes, we would actually freeze the information just to make sure that they have, like, one information base. And as mentioned before, these are the basic criteria that we will provide. Actually, Danielle has already done amazing work to provide a lot of detailed information. We're trying to kind of, like, sum that up, um, in a overview so that it's still easy and digestible for the community, uh, to process the information and then, yeah. Basically, you can have a look at the summary or go more into detail, and it's up to the community where they want to go. Yeah, if you have anything, uh, any thoughts, um, any contribution, feel free to reach out for Danielle. We're very open to any suggestions and, uh, your thoughts about also additional criteria, uh, and so on. Yeah, I think that's about it. Handing back to you, Danielle. Not sure if you want to add something.

Daniel T: Cheers. Yeah, I just wanted to add that, like, one of the things we talked about, which, uh, was a good point that you made, is we don't want to drown the, the, the people with, um, three, um, uh, th-three separate votes and then they might be confused about which one is actually the real vote. They might think they've already voted, and so on. And so, uh, as a, a better way to do this, we decided to launch both the humans app vote and the Google Docs poll, um, on, on the same date, which, like, our current target is next Thursday basically to have that out so that there's a good couple of weeks to collect data, which we can then include in, like, at least two weeks to collect data, which we can then include, uh, in the vote for the general assembly. Um, I mean, Peter, you... I, I see Peter, you say putting this to the community for a vote in September. Um, you, you... I think you voted for that general assembly.

Peter D: I didn't. I wasn't there.

Daniel T: You weren't there. Okay. Um.

Peter D: Um, yeah. I'll just say it out loud. I think this is crazy. Um-

Daniel T: Okay

Peter D: ... this is massively rushed. Um, and it's so critical to the longevity of our community, it feels like a bad idea to me. But I'll, I'll just say that and be done.

Daniel T: Uh, thank you, Peter. Um, is there anything else I've missed about this thing? Uh, yeah, so if you want to get involved in this or, you know, see the rough information that we have so far, there's an event dates channel on Discord. Uh, there's a page on the website as well. Please note, like, right now it's still the draft information, so it's not the, the one where you, uh... I mean, you're welcome to nitpick at things and say, "Well, wait, this doesn't quite add up." Like, you know, "What about this?" And so on. Just be aware that you're seeing the, the, the, the draft information that we're working on. It's not finalized yet. And, uh, as we get closer to the vote, obviously we'll have, you know, everything double-checked, fact-checked, and so on so that everything is, is correct and concise and easy to digest. Uh, that's the goal. Um, Asociados, what is the expected duration? Will we be informed by email only if the board meeting is... So Asociados, like, the-- we will-- We have to make a formal notification of the, the general assembly to all the Asociados at least 15 days before the assembly, and 15 days before the assembly the, the agenda is fixed. Um, you... The, the actual duration of the asynchronous part of the vote, we haven't decided yet. It's not specified in the statutes how long it needs to be. It could be that we do the full 15 days. It could be that we do a slightly shorter period. Oh, Asociados application. So I'm, I'm, I'm confused by your question, Matthew. Maybe you want to step, step in, just say what the question is.

Matthew C: Uh, yes. Sorry. Just, um, curious how long to expect, um, be- to wait before for, for, um, application of Asociados, 'cause you put in the message that you wanted to get some of the, some of the people who qualify in-included. So-

Daniel T: So-

Matthew C: Um, how long is that gonna take?

Daniel T: So as far as I know, everybody who is an Asociado at the point of the general assembly can vote. Um, as for who's in the queue right now, there are About 10 people in the queue, uh, three came in the last couple of days. Um, most of that, like, the, the... I don't know exactly how many will apply. Uh, we welcome application from all qualifying, uh, uh, potential members. Um, and we generally process them within, like, a couple of days. Um, like, a, a week at the most. Depends on, like, people's holidays, solar eclipses, you know, things like that get in the way. Uh, but we try to process them pretty quickly. And of course, just before a vote we'll be on the ball with making sure that every associado who qualifies who's applied will have the, um, um, uh, w- will, will have the, um, uh, their, um, um, uh, will, will have their stat- status on the Humans App.

Peter D: Okay.

Daniel T: Does, does that answer your question? Yeah? Cool. Uh, so yeah, if you wanna-

Peter D: Yeah. Yeah, yeah

Daniel T: ... jump in the conversation, the event dates channel on Discord. There's a webpage as well on the, on the website. Um, and it will get more and more, uh, accurate and, uh, useful a- and concise as time goes on, but you can see the work coming together if you want to. Um, next on the agenda, um, I want to talk about the coordinators debrief that just happened. Uh, I mean, Daniela, you can take over if you want, or I can talk about it and you can jump in. Like, what do you prefer?

Daniela S: Yeah, whatever you prefer. Um, we... Wait a second. Um, yeah, we had a meeting this week, and, uh, basically... Well, the most important things is that we're gonna be having debrief meetings for the next couple of weeks, so we're gonna do one, uh, per phase. Uh, we're gonna talk about setup first, then we're gonna talk about the event, then we're gonna talk about strike. And we're gonna also talk about what we wanna take for, to the ALM, which is gonna be in October from the 15th to the 19th. Uh, the ALM is open to all of the leads that are part of the organization and were part of the organization of this event, and the coordinators themselves. We have a maximum capacity of 50 people, and it's in, gonna be in Vidalia, which is here in Spain. Uh, that information is gonna come out soon. And, um, yeah, so we're gonna be working on wrapping up feedback, uh, and planning, starting to plan and propose stuff for the future. So that's the main thing. And I think the other thing, it's later on in the agenda. So, and Peter's here, [laughs] so.

Daniel T: Um, did you talk about, like, the ALM, AGM, that sort of stuff? Do you want me to talk about that a bit, or do you want to-

Daniela S: Um, yeah, you can talk about that if you want.

Daniel T: Uh-

Daniela S: I, I just mentioned it.

Daniel T: Oh, yeah. Sure. Uh, yeah. So, um, I, I th- I... Sorry, I m- might have, my mind might have drifted a bit. Like, you mentioned that it was gonna be leads focused and, and all that.

Daniela S: Yeah. I just said-

Daniel T: Okay

Daniela S: ... that it's, uh, open to all of the organization's, uh, leads, people that were on lead roles, uh, for this event, and coordinators. Um, and that we have a max capacity of 50 people, and it's gonna be in Vidalia in October from the 15th to the 19th.

Daniel T: Okay. Cool. Um, let's... I don't remember what I wanted to say about governance and general assembly, so I might go back to this, um, later. Um, so ALM is ALM online. So, like, last year, um, there was an ALM of, uh, an event in the area that had, uh, some people dial in f- uh, remotely. Um, I think we might be able to do something like that. Um-

Daniela S: Yeah, the event in person is, uh, up to 50 people in Vidalia. That's the max capacity. The rest is online.

Daniel T: Cool. Um, so I can hand it over, I think, to Peter to talk a bit about the expenses, finances, and where we're at with that.

Peter D: Sure. Um, expenses are open for people to file them, so if you had an art project or a travel reimbursement or some other expense that the association has said that they would pay for, for whatever reason, um, likely a departmental expense that somebody paid for privately, uh, then those can go through the expense report system. Um, the link is on the budget page. At the top, there's a button that says Expenses. Uh, and there it's one report per expense category, so, like, don't mix, um, cantina with production kind of thing. Um, it has an upload for the receipts you have, and it will ask for, at some point in the process, it asks for your IBAN so it knows where to send the money when it's, uh, once it's approved. Um, from there it goes to get approved through a couple layers depending on which department it is. Uh, and then we hope to have a batch of money getting sent out late next week. And then a second batch in the middle of September when I get back from Burning Man. Question, Edmund?

Edmund S: Um, so I already got an email I think a, a month ago saying I should put everything in a zip folder and then email it to, I think it was, um... I can't remember what the email address was. But should I do the online form as well?

Peter D: Yes.

Edmund S: All right, cool. Thank you.

Peter D: The email was, if anything, just a, a, a placeholder for the, the form, 'cause the, the form goes straight into our accounting system and that's how money gets paid, so that's the right way. We didn't have the expense report thing earlier. But going forward we won't need the duplication.

Daniela S: Yeah. I have some emails, uh, to be responded in my inbox, uh, about this stuff, so probably you'll hear back from me in the upcoming days. Uh, some people have sent it via email, the receipts and stuff, but I- We'll just refer to what Peter just said and send that info- info. Also, I'm trying to put it together so you can see either a video or, like, screenshots of the page and what you have to do.

Peter D: Hopefully not too hard. Pablo, you got a question? [laughs]

Pablo V: Uh, yeah, Peter. Do you prefer if we ask you questions before or if we send the expense report as best we can and you reject it if there's something wrong?

Peter D: I mean, it-- Knowing you, you should probably ask, but most people can probably just try it. [laughs]

Pablo V: Okay, okay. I-- I'll do my best. [laughs]

Peter D: I mean, it doesn't take long to ask a question, but I'm just asynchronous a lot. So, um, but yeah, if... For most people doing travel reimbursements or, um, our projects, just don't put in more than you're supposed to be able to get, then you should be fine. Um, but yeah, if you've got other... I know, Pablo, you were paying for association expenses before we had a bank account, so those are, um... Yeah, we gotta figure those out. But they go through the same system. This, this sh- this is how people will get paid back going forward.

Daniela S: Yeah, just a note in general that all expenses had to be approved by someone. So if it's not a travel, like a setup or strike, uh, travel reimbursement or an art grant, but like a departmental expense, that had to be approved by the coordinator of that department. So that's what you select in the category, and that's the person that will approve that expense, and then it will go to Peter, and then it can be paid.

Daniel T: Cool. So if no more questions, I will hand over to Ellen, who wants to talk about a really cool idea she's had about, um, some, like, barrio innovation spotlight. Is that a fair way to call it?

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Yeah, sure. Um, I think, uh, I'm a very sleepy person tonight, but I'm gonna try and bring the energy anyway. I think it'll be really fun to bring in some fun stuff, especially coming in from, uh, maybe from September, uh, where what I'd really like to do is to highlight a few of the cool things barrios have been doing, uh, to share some best practices, um, and yeah, share some fun stuff. I've seen a lot of cool stuff this year. I saw some really awesome LNT setups. I saw some really awesome plumbing. There was a bunch of fun stuff. So I'm really looking for any barrios that did something that they're proud of this year, maybe it's your showers, maybe it's something different, that we can kind of sprinkle into the community call starting from September, so we can have like a little highlight. So if you've got something you saw that was really cool or something that you wanna share, like, reach out. I'll put my Nobody's email in the chat, and I have a few ideas, so I might reach out to a few people, uh, to, to get some highlights on. And I think that's it really.

Daniel T: Cool. Amazing. Thank you. Um, right. One more item was, uh, this was from the, from- in the coordinators call, there was a whole, uh, item that was about volunteer appreciation, and a lot of people were very positive, and I wanted to kind of reverberate this into the community call that, um, like, volunteers really came through, uh, during this event. There was a lot of, like, amazing stuff done by people. A strike, like people came and helped the strike. It was, uh, really awesome and, uh, I just wanted to hold some space. If anybody has something specific they'd like to appreciate, uh, from somebody who, who, who did something, um, let's, like, please share it and, um, yeah, and make them feel slightly awkward because you appreciate them so much. Um, I think that's a nice, nice way to make somebody feel awkward maybe, or maybe not awkward. And of course, you can do that at any point in any of the calls. And maybe I've, uh, I should have, uh, telegraphed this one a bit better, um, [laughs] to, to make it easier for people to be appreciated. I... Yeah, I, I wanna make the, the, uh... Well, I'm, I wanna start by making the, the barrios team feel awkward. Um, so I have to thank Ellen and Case definitely from the barrios team here. Like, I felt that w- you, you guys were super helpful and super supportive, and we managed to, like, even though, like, the garden was, as usual, quite chaotic, we managed to get stuff sorted out at the last minute, and it was really, uh, really helpful that, uh, you guys were there. Uh, like, it felt like... And considering you were picking up from, uh, Paul Pickup who'd, who'd done this the last few years, I, I think at a related event or an unrelated event, um, like it was a lot to pick up, and you did quite, quite well, and I really appreciated that.

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Thank you. I mean, we felt pretty chaotic, and we know we wanna do some things differently, uh, next year for sure. But yeah, thanks. Appreciated. [laughs]

Daniel T: Anyone else want to appreciate someone? [laughs]

Pablo V: I actually really appreciated the takeover that Come and Play did of Cantina. I thought it was really, really cool. Good move [laughs] that they were, like, serving everyone and it's kind of a unusual, unusual volunteering move. [laughs]

Daniel T: Thanks, Come and Play. I mean, there's not a lot of people on this call, so...

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Can we give a Peter appreciation hour at some point? Maybe we can organize a, a Humans building Peter appreciation hour. [laughs]

Daniel T: Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Pablo V: A bit full holiday. [laughs]

Daniel T: A full hour. Yeah. We could come up with stuff to talk about for a full hour. There's th- there's... Humans is a big app. [laughs] If we just read out all the features, I think it would take most of an hour. [laughs]

Peter D: Uh, funny enough, I actually, 'cause I'm g- going to Burning Man, I'm gonna have to talk about it a little bit. I had Claude do some stats on it, and apparently I've written one point... Well, with Claude's help, 1.5 million lines of code. [laughs] Across 1,987 commits since, uh, February. So it's been busy.

Daniel T: Yeah. Ellen?

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Yeah, I think we should also call out the Peaches. I think they are the camp that did the most volunteer hours according to Humans profile at least.

Daniel T: Ooh.

Ellen / Dr Plantes: They had a crazy, crazy amount of sort of well over 1,000 hours of volunteering. [laughs] Pretty mad. Thanks to the Peaches.

Daniel T: Yeah. It's amazing. Thank you. And they did the power. Like, actually that's something I want to call out, like The Garden ran on the red grid, and the red grid ran fine. Like, the only issue we had was that there was this silly water system at the back that kept shorting the camp, [laughs] but, but that was definitely not because of the power team. So it was awesome to have steady power for the f- first time that I remember at The Garden. Like, it just worked. Thank you.

Cupcake: Uh, I'm, I'm so glad it did. I'm very happy with the way things turned out. It was a lot, so thank you. And, uh, also obviously couldn't have done that without the amazing power team. They were out there doing trenches for hours. I didn't do a single trench. Um, but uh, they were amazing.

Daniel T: Anyone else? Or maybe somebody has a question about something? No questions. Huh? Wouter.

Wouter B: Hello. Wait, I'm seeing if my camera works. Yes.

Daniel T: Yeah. Hello.

Wouter B: So is it... I have a question. Is it possible, maybe a question for Peter, to, uh, make a sort of a display that shows which barrio does, uh, the amount of, uh, NORC shifts so we can, so we can make it a bit of a competition? We like competition.

Peter D: So we actually do have a... There's an internal report that does that. It's more of a workload thing where we're trying to figure out if people are getting burnt out, but I kind of did that by accident. Um, the challenge was for this year not everybody put their barrios in, so the data's not truly accurate. Next year we'll push a little better to get everybody to list their barrios, um, and then the data will be a little bit more accurate, and then we can kind of, uh, also use that to help nudge certain barrios that are either over or underperforming to, you know, take care of their people or try a little harder. Um, and yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a community so it's, it's just we don't want to necessarily force everybody to do a shift per se, but it... There is an argument for, like, one Burner, one shift-

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Mm

Peter D: ... kind of thing at a lot of other Burns and, and we'll probably have tools to nudge people along that line, those lines a lot better for next year.

Wouter B: Yeah. Many people in our camp are really, really competitive so we're... If this can be a new competition we can win, this can, uh, bring many people to Bear. [laughs] Since other competitions will not be there next year, we're looking for new competitions that we can win.

Peter D: [laughs] Well, we, we also might start keeping track of which, which shifts people don't show up for, which is a thing that we don't want to be on that list. Um, but uh, yeah, so it's, it's as much about signing up for a shift as it is showing up for the shift. Um, but yeah, that's, uh... We'll, we'll get some of the fun people to help me figure out a way to make that a, a fun leaderboard we can have. It's also got to be a little bit fair, right? So if some camps are three times as many people as other camps, so we've got to kind of normalize it by the number of people in the camp.

Wouter B: Yeah. Of course, of course. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Peter D: And it's also some people show up for three weeks for build so, you know, they're gonna win inherently. But, uh-

Wouter B: Yeah

Peter D: ... if we did just, uh, the main Burn week, we should be able to get a nice little leaderboard for that. Um, and hopefully encourage the community in a way that's, uh, positive and helpful.

Daniel T: I mean, Workhouse is there for weeks doing shifts beforehand, so they would kind of win by default, right?

Peter D: Yeah, yeah. But if the sh- if this, the s- if the ranking leaderboard whatever thing only counted Burn shifts, that would probably be a lot more fair.

Daniel T: Mm.

Peter D: But in that case, Workhouse is gonna lose because they-

Daniel T: Yeah

Peter D: ... they did all their... Not that it's a competition, but they did-

Daniel T: [laughs]

Peter D: ... they did their work in the three weeks before the build week, so. Um-

Daniel T: Win some, lose some. [laughs]

Peter D: Yeah. It's, it's not all black and white. It's a very complicated world we live in, and we seem to like to do hard things so we'll figure it out.

Daniel T: All right. Ellen?

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Yeah. This is a bit jumping back again in time. Uh, but I was thinking again about what Peter said about choosing a date seems rushed. Uh, do we actually have, do we, do we have a date? Is there a cutoff point by which point we need to have chosen new dates for next year?

Daniel T: Um, Daniela, do you want to answer that directly or is it an extra point?

Daniela S: Uh, no, yeah, I can answer that.

Daniel T: Okay.

Daniela S: Um, I mean, we definitely need to have a good idea, like, around November, December. Uh, otherwise it's a bit of a struggle. Currently we have sent a document to ask of all the possible dates that we have to, um, uh, get a, like, a clearance from two institutions in Spain, one that takes care about flora and the other one about fauna and w- about, um, flooding. So we need to get clearance from them in order to do an event in general. And then, uh, when we get that, we start, like, the permit road. So currently it's August and everything is closed and will be for the next two to three weeks. Uh, and then they get on it. They did tell me last week that they're gonna try their best, but they cannot assure that we will get a response by October, which is when I wanted that response. Um, they usually take around three months, and they said that they could take longer than three months to get back to us. So that's the current situation.

Ellen / Dr Plantes: So the-- what I'm hearing is that really we do want to kind of have a preliminary idea in September, by the end of September in order to organize. Is that correct?

Daniela S: So it, um, so in terms of production, we can just plan for the event and then wherever we end up doing it, it, it doesn't really affect much the planning because land-wise they're not that far off. Uh, we do need to do extra stuff in the new land, but that, for the rest it's pretty much the same. Um, I don't know to be honest about the choosing the date in September because we just gave a bunch of options and then we need to hear back which of these options are realistic because maybe they can say that some of them are not an option and then we need to discard them. So I don't know if what we do in September if more of like gauging, like what's the sense of the community, when do peop- when are people more available for, in all of the options or something like that.

Daniel T: So just to speak to that a little bit, um, the, the plan is to do, um, a, a wider community poll, um, that is non-binding, that is not a decision, and then to do a general assembly, uh, poll of the members. That poll will be a ranked voting system where you pick your first, second, et cetera, you rank the, the dates, and that way allows us if, like, uh, and, and, you know, it uses a ranked voting method so that once a date gets 50%, that's the date that wins. But then it's also, because it's ranked, it's also flexible enough that if we then, you know, a month later find out that INAGA, which is the, um, birds watching or like the environment, one of the re- environmental institutions we need, we need a report from or clearance from, if they tell us, "Oh, actually you can't have it on that date," we can then go to the next ranked vote. And we'll have at that point, uh, a clear vote from the members based on like quite a lot of information. If we decide that we wanna reopen at that point and we say like, "Actually, we're gonna change our mind," and we like, you know, we are an association of members, we can vote for whatever we want. We can, like we can call a new vote with 15 days' notice. Um, but rather than wait until we have all the information, uh, as in like all, like there's always gonna be more information trickling in. And I mean, from a personal, uh, stance, and I think that applies to quite a few people as well, like I plan my year around the, the, the dates of this event and like if I don't know when the event is happening, it's very hard to do that. Um, and like I don't wanna say yes to going on some kind of amazing trip next year and then find out that's the date of the, of, of, of, of the event. Um, and for that, like I need to know when the event is. And I think a lot of people, if they don't know when the dates are, they're gonna book things ahead. And some dates have been, uh, announced five years in advance that, um, are like we're, like our information from talking to the, like, like the, from the very lengthy conversation that Daniela and Jorge had with the, the authorities, um, showed and like in looking at the charts of the wildfires, which you can find on the, the event dates page under event on the homepage, uh, you can see that the frequency of wildfires increased so much, uh, that it's, there's a very high risk that if we do the event at the dates that were pre-announced, that will get canceled. Um, we should have gotten canceled twice this year. By law, we would have been. They had-- they passed a law in March that said that when there's a Roja Plus alert, all permits are suspended. It's only through Daniela and Jorge's enormous efforts that like in back channel negotiations with Comarca, with the, the, the, the mayor, et cetera, they managed to get us to like to, to allow us to stay on site. There's no guarantee we get that next year. Um, they very strongly communicated to us that like it would be better if we move the event somewhere like to, to a, a less risky time. And if we don't, they might see this as, well, we tried to warn you and like we can't stop it now. Um, the earliest dates, um, we've been looking at, you can see on the e- event dates, uh, page under elsewhere, if you click on event and 207- seven dates, um, the first table actually just shows the wildfire alerts, which only start on 31st of May or, uh, so that one is slightly less useful, but the other table with the weather goes all the way to 3rd of May. If we wanna add more dates, we could, but that's, that's where we've, we've set it up for now, um, to answer Ana. Um, but yeah, it feels like having clarity about when the event happens is quite urgent, um, for planning purposes, not just of the event, but also of all the people who want to attend. Um, and it, it makes a big difference also to other burns. They need, they may need to replan their things. Uh, this may be a positive for some of them. Like I've heard in some conversations that some burns might react to us moving, say, earlier by saying, "Great, the first week of July is available. That's a better week for us. We were avoiding it because there was another event happening there," and they move into that week and- Who knows? Like one of the comedy scenarios would be that we move our dates and like five burns move into the first week of July, [laughs] and then they, they have their own problems then. But, um, like it's, um, like it has an impact on all these other burns. It has an impact on all our participants. It has an impact on our planning. Um, it has an impact on our planning applications. There's a lot of impacts, and the sooner we have clarity about when we want to do this thing, the, the better for everyone. And that's why we're going-- I don't think it's-- I mean, I don't believe it's that aggressive. I think we can collect enough useful information in that time. Um, and we voted twice about it on the board now. Um, and the first time was gonna be 3rd of September, and then we moved it to the 17th of September. Um, Daniela, do you wanna add something?

Daniela S: Uh, no, it's more of like, um, recap. So, so the-- we're doing right now is we've already sent the request to these institutions to know which dates are o-of all of the dates possible between May and s- and September, which are the dates we sent, um, to see which are the ones that are possible for us to do an event, and that's gonna be happening in the next three to four months in whichever time they give us an answer. And in September, we're gonna do this, um, voting in which we're gonna decide an order in which, like the order of priority in which we want those dates. So when we get that answer, we cross them, and then the first option that we have and aligns with this, that's the date we get. So that's the plan.

Daniel T: Yeah.

Daniela S: Okay. Cool.

Daniel T: Anna?

Anna T: Yeah, just, uh, a briefing around communication. Um, I'm thinking of what, uh, Matthew was picking up on earlier. Like, uh, do we have like an email communication to everyone who would be, uh, voting on these things, both, um, in, uh, both the Sofiaras and the, the wider community? Because, uh, talking about it on the calls and, uh, on the Discord, on the, um, you know, certain channels, it's gonna reach some, uh, highly engaged people. And I'm wondering like, yeah, how we, how we can help and, uh, how, yeah, how the communication-- If there, if there is an email that, uh, that can be s- is gonna be sent out. Yeah, how, how are we talking about this?

Daniel T: Céline, do you wanna take this or like, or shall I? I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll take this first and then hand it over to you. Um, the, the plan is that, so next week we, uh, launch that poll, and that will be with an email. So we'll send an email to our mailing list. We'll send, uh, on the WhatsApp, on the Telegram. Um, we've been talking about it also on these community calls, et cetera. And, uh, we've started talking about it already with other burns. We have, uh, uh, Peter K reaching out to other burns. Uh, I've reached out to some as well. Like, so there's already some communications going on through a variety of channels. But we'll start the official communication, like the, by email and stuff, once we have the poll for people to click on and express something. So rather than just tell them, "Oh, we're talking about this." We're talking about this. You can engage with the process, and also if all you wanna do is express which dates you hate and which dates you love, you can also just do that. So that's the point where we're, we send a blast, basically. Uh, Céline?

Céline S: Yeah, totally makes sense. No, I think you said everything to this point. I just also wanted to open up. I mean, if you feel like there is some information missing, um, that you need for you, you to take the decision about the dates, feel free to reach out to me or Daniela as well, and we're actually happy to collect information. Um, so really happy to put in the work there and make sure that you're able to take the decision. Um, and if we see there's actually some information missing, then this is, uh, another point certainly to have questions. But I want the information, and I'm quite confident that a lot is there, but please feel free to reach out, um, and let us know if you feel like there is a criteria that we forgot.

Daniel T: Yeah. The goal is not to go and try and rush this and like, you know, have a quickly cobbled together or something or other to just like try and get away. This is a very important decision for this event. Um, like when the burn happens impacts everybody very strongly, uh, impacts even other burns very strongly, so we wanna collect their opinions as well. That would be part of the information pack. Um, and, um, we like, we really want this to be the best process it can be, and we also want it to be done reasonably soon because there are time pressures there of, uh, like, you know, getting people the clarity for how to plan their, their year, how to plan their burns, et cetera. Um, so like if you have, if you wanna participate, if you wanna help with this, we could use help. We could use help contacting other burns. If you look at the, what we have so far and you're like, "Wait, we need this other information," please join in, help. Like even just mentioning we need this other information is helpful. One of the pieces of information that, uh, I'm still yet to add into the page, for example, is school holidays. That does impact people. That is a thing that we should have as like, you know, as a visual information that people should be able to see. Um, but there might be some other ones that we haven't spotted. So please do engage with this. Like your input is welcome. Um, and you should be able to see everything that we're working on basically in the event dates channel. And we're very open to feedback, criticism, et cetera. We wanna do this as well, as well as we can. Does anyone have any other questions? Doesn't have to be about the event dates. Could be about anything else. We haven't officially called it as such. Uh, 20... Yeah, it is a 20 to 7-- 2027 dates working group. Okay. Yeah. Working groups is another topic which [laughs] is, um, yeah, a very different... Yeah, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll talk about that. Um, it's slightly off topic for right now. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean, it is, it is a group that's organizing to go and help the community make a decision. Ultimately, you know, with a, a choice like dates, every choice is wrong in some way for somebody. Um, the key is that we choose a choice that's... Like, we follow a process that gets buy-in from people, so they feel like they had a say in this, and they're able to accept the results of the decision. Um, and obviously that it's not a complete disaster in terms of some kind of thing that then wasn't documented. Anyone else? Do you know who the first barrier is gonna-- uh, that's gonna present some kind of cool innovation, Ellen?

Ellen / Dr Plantes: I don't know, but I would love for it to be plumbing. Man, Jam House's plumbing, if you did not go see it, you guys missed out. If you were partying or having sex instead of looking at plumbing, I don't know what you were doing 'cause it was just so cool. So I'm hoping for Jam House.

Daniel T: All right. Cool. I hope they come next week. Looks like there's not any other burning questions. Of course, if you have questions outside of this call, you can ask them on Discords, on... Ping one of us on WhatsApp, et cetera. Like, you know, we're all quite available. Um, questions can happen outside these calls, but it's nice to get together and talk. It can be easier. Um, all right. Great. Well, I'll see you all next week, or whoever does join next week. And, uh, hope you have a fantastic weekend and, uh, yeah, see you soon. Have fun. Bye.

Ellen / Dr Plantes: Thanks everyone. Thanks for hosting, Daniel. Bye everyone.

Daniel T: Oh.

Anna T: Bye. Thank you.

Pablo V: No, you're welcome. No, you're welcome.

Daniela S: Bye.