Community Meeting Transcript

Tancredi T: Hello. Hello. How it goes?

Daniel T: Goes well, but I'm gonna switch to, uh, the- my special device so I can start playing music shortly.

Tancredi T: Oh, yeah.

Daniel T: And that switches off my mic.

Tancredi T: Looking forward. Hey, hey.

Daniela S: Dank.

Tancredi T: What's good?

Daniela S: How you doing?

Tancredi T: Eh, you know.

Daniela S: (laughs)

Tancredi T: How are you? (techno music plays)

Daniel T: What happened? (techno music plays) Hey, what's up? (techno music plays) Is- (techno music plays) Hi, good evening. (techno music plays) Look at this guy.

Michael M (nurse): Not to be the nomad in the room, but it's seven o'clock. Shut it down. (techno music plays)

Daniel T: Hello. Hope you enjoyed this track. Um, yeah. Uh, hopefully. Uh, welcome to the, uh, community call for today. It's, uh, likely going to be a short one, I think. Like, there's not a huge amount of things, uh, although they're all very important. Um, I think the most important thing to start with is, uh, toilet update. We have now paid for the toilets. Uh, I made the transfer today. Uh, just wanted to share with, with you all that, uh, we just transferred 69,000 euros to pay for toilets. I've never, never transferred that much money to pay for toilets before in my life. To me, this is a kind of important milestone. I want to share it with everybody. Um, wow, toilets are expensive. Um, I really hope on the new site, we can figure out something, uh, something more cost-effective. Um, there's also, we're gonna be talking a bit about, uh, volunteering, and I wanted to, um, uh, share a little bit of my perspective on this, and I think that Nurse is gonna do an update as well, uh, from the volunteering, and maybe it can become a kind of discussion as well. Um, (clears throat) there's, um, a reality that, um, is, is present in this event that we're on track to have probably about 2,000 tickets, uh, sold for the event. And last year, we, uh, we had about 3,000, and so there's about two-thirds of the number of people coming, which means that there's about two-thirds of the number of volunteers likely to be, uh, eh, in any area, uh, like, optimistically. Uh, that's, you know, if the same proportion of people sign up as last year, we would get about 2,000 number, number of volunteers. Um, that means that there is an impact on certain aspects of the event, on like, you know, what we can build. So if we have, for example, a build team with 2,000 number of people, probably we can build two-thirds the, the amount of stuff. That just means it's a slightly different event, um, as in, you know, maybe this year, we don't build, uh, no Hana house. We build a gate that's somewhat different, maybe easier to build, or like, there's gonna be adjustments that I believe the, the, the infrastructure team has some, some plans. Like, based on what I've heard, they've got some, some ideas about what they can do to adjust to the number of people who are there. And at the same time, there's also a reality that Nurse will tell us a, a bit more about, I think, that, you know, if we can get more volunteers on certain areas, it will have a nice positive impact on all of us. You know, if we like to have a gate that's, uh, you know, nice and welcoming, like the gate that we're used to, then we need to have the people there to build it. Um, and there's gonna be some element of prioritization that depends on how many people we have, uh, in those, uh, in, in those areas in particular of build. And, of course, of strike, which is also very important and, uh, uh, easy to forget about. We're all excited about build. Um, having said this, I think, uh, I'm happy to hand over to Nurse. Nurse, if you wanna take, take it on? Um

Michael M (nurse): Uh, yeah, let me see if I can share a screen. Uh... (hums) (clicks tongue) Yeah, so this is what the overall volunteers dashboard looks like. This is for the duration of pre-event and post-event. I- I'm not able to get more granular on it, but I can make some images to share around for people afterwards. Um, yeah, I think it's definitely true that we have a drop in the number of volunteers, um, quite markedly. Um, I think it's also we, we're missing a lot of key people. Earlier on in the year, there was a discussion, go versus no-go, and I think there are a lot of people who are quite involved in the event who've, who felt at the time that we shouldn't, that we should be taking a year off as an event, and then they have also now decided to take a year off. So it's not just the numbers that we're missing. It's the skill set and it's the experience. Certain areas are doing very well. Gate is doing very well. Pre-event nomads is not doing terribly, although as is often the case, nights and weekends are a struggle. It's the pre-event period on site during the setup bit in particular, especially when it comes to on-the-ground volunteers, largely around infrastructure. Usually heading into the event in pre-event week, which we're on site for three weeks, we've got first crew week, setup week, and then pre-event week. During pre-event week, there are 14 people signed to come with infrastructure and build things. That's usually about 44 people.Um, there's, there are people signing up. I think the, you know, I think the messaging around shifts going out which, the team, term can be a bit misleading. So there's quite a few people who are signing up for the three or four days before the event, which we're pooling into a general volunteer pool and myself, Rebar, and Frank have been discussing, you know, if there's six people arriving three days before the event, then that's a team we can make and throw on certain tasks. Um, but in reality, it is going to be a real challenge with the people who are there for the early first week, and then the setup week. That's week one and week two on site, not having people. I do think we need to start thinking about contingency plans. There's lots of stuff that we can, we will just do well as we always have done. But yeah, I think there is a bit about contingency plans. I am a little bit concerned or surprised... No, that's probably the wrong choice of phrase. I think it's good if a team like infrastructure is thinking about ways that they can cut things, such as dropping a structure. I'm just very aware that those structures often have people who are planning year-round and, and working on it. So I'd be mindful about suggesting dropping anything in particular, naming any particular structure without having some good discussions around it because there are people now presently working who are going to be decorating those structures or running those structures, or operating them. So if we're gonna drop anything, it would be really good to get some preemptive discussions on it. Um, yeah, I think we, it's, the, the push is recruitment and how do we find people. Uh, there's a lot of messaging going out. This time of year is really, really busy, and I think it's trying to figure out, are there people that we do not know about who happen to have two or three weeks spare who want to come out early? And, uh, if so, how do we find those people or what more information do they need? Um, our goal is always going to be to do things safe and do things well and really look after volunteer morale. That's the most important thing. You know, at the end of the day, we do this event for our volunteers and the attendees. So yeah, in, in essence, parts of it are looking quite, um, challenging, but then also parts of it are doing great. And I think, you know, always have to give praise. There are some of these teams that have built really good, solid, uh, volunteer culture that people wanna come back every year. GATE, LNT, really just good projects that people really want to come back to. Power are smashing it. Case and the team and Barrio Support have come from the ground up building a, a new team. So it's not all negati- negative. There's a huge amount of really positive stuff being done, and I really hope nobody comes away feeling dejected. It's just how do we get some extra numbers for those people? And I think the general question is, how do we do this contingency planning in a way that's fair, but recognizes that we've got four weeks until teams hit site? So yeah, I'm gonna, that's my update as it were, and open it up to discussion or questions

Daniel T: I, I, thank, thank you, Nurse. Uh, I think it's worth adding, um, that as an event, you know, there are things we can do. If there's somebody who could come but, like, um, they might need some help financially to be able to come to the event, we have, like, uh, stipends and we could try and figure out ways to make it easier for th- for them to come to the event. So if you know of somebody who could do that, and this is, you know, to the people who are on this call or who are listening to this call, or are watching a recording of this call, um, if you know somebody who's like, "Yeah, I could come, but I, like, I can't quite make it work for this, that," and we'll let, like, you know, maybe have them get in touch and maybe we can figure out a way to help them and to make it work. Um, and, like, you know, we're all quite keen to, to have the resources there, to, to have, uh, awesome, awesome structures there. Um, and yeah, so please encourage people to get in touch, and let's see what we can do there. Does anyone have any questions or comments or things they want to say? There's not a lot of it... I see a, somebody with their hand raised there, please say something if you want.

W: Hi.

Daniel T: Okay.

W: Uh, Party Girl here. Uh, when you say get in touch with us, like, through which channel should we-

Daniel T: (laughs)

W: ... uh, go and do that? Uh, like, where, who exactly do we contact when we find people to, uh, to come out and help?

Daniel T: So there's, um, there's, uh, like, um, a- a- any that reaches, uh, people like myself or Nurse or, like, um, uh, so anybody on the board or anybody. Nurse Frank as well is another key person on this. Daniella, um, like, if you post on the Discord, say, like, uh, on the Discord, we'll notice you. If you WhatsApp us, we'll notice you. If you send us a message on Telegram, but I think most of us are on Telegram, uh, we'll respond to those messages. If you somehow don't get a response, put, post it to a different person. Maybe that person's just, you know, gone to hospital or something, and just, like, somebody will care about this. Um, we... So we, I think we have broadcast this in various messages. Uh, I'm, I'm seeing Nora's question, like, why not broadcast this que- this, uh, concern? We have sent messages, we have sent emails. Um, I- I assume that it's okay if I unmute. Is that right? Yeah, answer your question. Uh, anyway. Um, the... We have s- we have sent emails, but I think there's an effect that, like, the emails and the WhatsApps and the Telegrams and so on are reaching the same pool of about, like, 1,000 to 1,500 people who are already, like, heavily engaged. Um, it's not like, you know, I imagine most people on this call are not very surprised that there's, uh, this issue with volunteers and build and so on. I don't, I can't imagine it's a huge surprise if you've been turning up to these calls. This has been discussed on almost every call.... that I can remember. Um, so what we need is to get the message out to people who aren't already receiving that message. Or if you know somebody who has received that message, but they're kind of on the fence and not sure and they could use a, a little bit of help, then tell them, "Hey. Like, you know, actually you can get that help, so do get in touch." Uh, I see a hand raised by Axel. Axel, why don't you s- speak?

Axel P: Uh, I had just a question. Um, e- do y- did somebody have written a note or a brief message or something, like, just to, um, to give, uh, envy and to motivate people to come? Because, uh, for example, I, I think, uh, it's possible for me to tell to, to try to convince a friend from different bio to come, and post a message on, uh, this, on bio Discord directly. But, uh, maybe somebody have already written, uh, something, uh, with the good, uh, argument and perks to know to, to give them, uh, the envy of people to come to the build. Um, I'm not sure if it's clear.

Daniel T: Yeah, uh, yeah. It, it is a clear question. And, um, I think, um, comms have written some messages about this. I'm not sure if there's a new... Like, there could be a new message, um, like, um... and I'm sort of, like, glancing over towards Nurse and Frank and wondering if we could come up with a message that's easy to forward, uh, for people to post to their barrier groups and so on, that sort of highlights the benefits of going, of going there for, for build or strike. Um, it seems like it would be a good idea to have something that's easy to forward and easy to post.

Michael M (nurse): Yeah, we could definitely look at that. I think there's also the message that goes out as to how dire this is, or is the event at risk. But I, I think it's very hard and easy to oversell how bad it is, um, and avoid making it sound like fun. But then also at the same time, it's easy for people not to get the message of need, you know. As the Noah Orgy and workshop people say, it's good to share our needs and express our boundaries. Um, we've been doing this event for 20 years, so it's, uh, it's, uh, there's definitely a deep-rooted volunteer culture. But yeah, I think at this stage, you know, we need to be emboldening people to get out and share that message. And maybe we can come up with some scripts, basically, if, if needed. I think in particular for Axel and others amongst the Francophone community, it's really good to try and get that out there. Like everything, there's a lot of noise and sometimes not enough signal. But I think everybody should be individually empowered to, to boost the message and encourage people to come. Volunteering is great. I've done it at the event for 20 years. But this year, I think we definitely have a real need to try and get people to come, you know, two weeks early or stay one week later. That's a real challenge at present.

Daniel T: Taking on the, the question that Gabby asked, sorry if it's obvious, but has comms already scoured in person all the Euro- other European Burner WhatsApp chats, FB groups, et cetera? I would say no. Um, comms has been more focused on the, the groups that we're, uh, like the, the, the Telegram group, the WhatsApp group, and not even really Facebook. And that's where we kind of need us, the community to, to do that, and to, uh, to go and get the word out. And it's, it... We are in a very, very networked, very connected community. So if we go out and start spreading that, even if just the people on this call, the 30 people or so on this call go and, and spread the message to like, a few groups that they belong to each, that's already gonna reach like, thousands of people, basically. Um, and it's our event, you know. Um, we are the comms team. We are the (laughs) the, the best comms team, actually. Uh, I see Nora, you have your hand raised?

Nora A: Yeah, I just know that in the Berlin Burner, (clears throat) in the German Burner groups, we have definitely spread it. Um, but I think, yeah, uh, we can, I can definitely take it to comms, and, um, we can draft a shareable message and share it in the usual channels so it's easier for people to share. I think we had one already, to be honest. Um, but we can definitely do that again and share it within the next one or two days. Um, and then I think it would be, as you said, super recommendable for everybody to share it in their own networks and get your friends on board.

Daniel T: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, you know, it's social media, uh, it's social media. It's about, like, the connections, and it's not about, like, having just one organism that's trying to broadcast this. Uh, it's more about using our, our social connections to go and get the word out to our networks. Um, I think Nurse had his hand up, but I think he's taken it down, so I'll carry on reading the messages. Um, there are a few groups we haven't really posted to. Feel free to, yeah, feel free to write those messages as well. Like, you know, you know this event. If you're on this call, you probably know this event pretty well. Uh, feel free to ask for help drafting a message, but, you know, if you share stuff, that is why you think people should come and participate in the builds, then, you know, that's probably a, a strong argument coming from you. Uh, it might work better than a, a more polished message from, uh, fr- uh, from someone else. Um, and so it sounds like we'll post a polished mess- Like, I guess we can post it to the Telegram and WhatsApp group, and to the, um, uh, the en- is there an announcement group on Discord?... there's a r- resource, uh, resource is probably an authorized place. Uh, we'll post it on updates, uh, so you can find it on updates on Discord as well. And Chris points out that Daniella's link also talks about volunteering. Uh, so let's... We'll post that as well. (coughs) Tank.

Tancredi T: Yeah, I'm just wondering for- for build, which seems the critical bit, um, I mean, obviously like the problem is you might scale the message, but the number of available people for a long period doesn't scale. Are people coming over for one weekend or people managing to squeeze in five days actually able to help? Or is it more like, do they just add faff, right? You're looking for people that come to build for, what, two weeks before the event at least, or a weekend warrior for the builds, one, two, three weeks before is any helpful?

Daniel T: So I can't really speak for the infrastructure team, who isn't here right now. But speaking as build leads of the garden, which is, you know, a smaller (laughs) version of the- of the- the thing, I find that if they're there to build, yes, people like coming for a weekend, who are there- there to build, can make a huge difference. If they come to like acclimatize and like, you know, (babbles) it's like start the party early or something like that, then like it doesn't matter if they're there for two weeks, they still don't help. (laughs) So...

Tancredi T: Yeah, of course.

Daniel T: It's like- like... But like, people, especially if they're- they're competent and like they've done build before or something, they know what they're doing and they come for the weekend, yeah, that can probably make quite a big difference to the- to the- to the infrastructure team, um, like certainly from a- a garden perspective, like two years ago, we had people coming in and out and yes, it did make a big difference. Um, I don't know if, uh, somebody who's more familiar with, uh, event build can speak to that. Maybe Nurse, you might know more about this one. I don't know.

Michael M (nurse): Yeah, I'll speak. Uh, we stopped trying to use the word build a few years ago 'cause it comes quite confusing...

Daniel T: Mm-hmm.

Michael M (nurse): ... as to are you talking about build the period, and actually a huge amount of the work that's done on site is- is not building, um, and a huge amount of it is... Yeah, I think build has often put people off if they're not builders. But thinking about that pre-event period, this is what 2025 looks like compared to 2026. I'm in the midst of updating that this week. So this is the week before the event, and we've started separating out finishing weekends, so that's Friday, Saturday, Sunday pre-event. Now as an int- elsewhere it's an interesting beast. It kind of changes, so there's, you know, week on site where the only work that's really being done is- is cooking and erecting infrastructure. Uh, that's that first crew week there, and then once you get into set-up week, there's certain things that are doing, you know, the power team are moving in, um, you know, the- the power team are moving in, demarcation signs ramping up, and then as we head into pre-event week, the- the amount of work that needs to be done is quite vast. And by that stage, traditionally, this red is the people who come to build the infrastr- to build the infrastructure, the build team. You can kind of see those massive gaps that are just there. I'm not sure anyone i- from the- from the build or the infrastructure team is here as yet. We're thinking that we're going to have to rejig things here a bit, and this pre-event week, these days from Wednesday the 1st till finishing weekend, we're going to have to change how we do things quite a bit. So, in theory, somebody coming for that four or five-day stretch could be quite useful if we're able to rapidly get them on a team. The challenge is as well is that around this time, lots of the event time services are moving in. So, you know, around this time, gates are ramping up, so the gate needs to be finished by this point. Around this time, we need to have, uh, things ready for, you know, consent team and Ohana House, and all these other services that operate during the event are moving in. So if there are people who are able to come during this pre-event week from a solid block of time and have some skills, we can definitely use them. I think we- we've done quite a huge amount of work the past few years, in that things started to finish up a bit earlier, that meant that last year Rebar was able to lead a really good strike all through this week. It meant that we were able to get lots of projects finished earlier and be less stressful. (swallows) So, we're- we're definitely gonna need the help during this period of people coming. We're also very mindful that we do get a lot of signups of volunteers of people who are arriving on Sunday or Saturday, primarily just as a- as a route to an early entry, although this year, the volunteers team, we're gonna... You know, if people are here for two days, we're gonna try and use them well. Um, so yeah, people coming during this pre-event week definitely helps. It's just at this point, it's gonna be downstream of people being short the week before, or the week- the week- or the first week. But yeah, we can definitely use the help, but this is what it looks like, as in the number of people who were in this final pre-event week, who were installing the infrastructure of the event, versus the number of people who are coming to do it this year. But yes, if people are able to come for a few days during pre-event week, it would definitely be appreciated and we can try and figure it out, 'cause by Monday, it's showtime. The permit requirements all need to be filled, so myself, Frank, Rebar, Tika, lots of people were just discussing different ways that we can work on site. It's gonna be a different event. And yeah, just onto Matthew's comment there, build has in the past put certain people off You know, if you're not particularly physically strong, or you lack those skills, it's easy to think that your help is not useful, but during this window of time, there are certain people whose sole job is to sit inside AC and do admin, and it's just as important. We don't wanna..... over-raise one type of work above anything else, 'cause, you know, it takes all the skills in the world to put this shitshow together (laughs) .

Daniel T: Um, I just want to, like... Thank, thank you, Nurse. I just want to also say that it felt like the question that Tank had was also, like, um, if... what if somebody was able to come, just, say, for the weekend of the 27th and 28th, um, would that help? Or the weekend before that, if they were able to just come for that and they're, like, you know, skilled builder and they wanna help build stuff. Would that help or does that not help if they just come for that weekend?

Michael M (nurse): Um, yeah, I'm a big fan of it. I'm a big fan of work weekends. I worked for Burning Man for years. We have people come out and do work over the weekend, then head back. Uh, if the team... Uh, and that's definitely a Barcelona, uh, thing. It's more likely to affect people like that. I think it can be beneficial if we know in advance what is coming down, what is arriving on a particular day, then it can... we can then factor in that labor pool. I also think that's quite relevant for Strike. Strike also feels very all-or-nothing. People are very like, "Either I leave on Monday with my friends or I get stuck in this shithole for a week," which is very much not the case. Um, and culturally, I think we should also be encouraging maybe people to leave and go back to Barcelona for Monday and Tuesday, rest, refresh, and then come back for a couple of days, Strike post-event. Basically, if you've got some help, you've got some capacity, and you're willing to help and be told what to do, we'll make it work. This is not the year that we can be excessively picky or choosey. As long as people have got a good attitude, we'll find use for them. This yellow screen here is basically showing the cantina. Um, and, um, I know that these fuckers work particularly hard. I'd rather get out all day and bang holes in the ground than, than pull off some of the feats they do in the kitchen, so. Um, yes, these are some of the hardest workers here, so yeah. Even if somebody's coming out for a couple of days, for a weekend before the event, we can figure out in a way to make it work. And plus, you can come set up your tent, leave your shit there, and then come out and your camp's all ready.

Daniel T: And, and that, that might be worth, worth saying, like in terms of like... So we, we... I, I certainly know, and I'm sure we all know people who are like, "Yeah, I can't be bothered to come for the whole event and stuff." They might be willing to just come and help out for a couple of days and then go back. Like, I know some people who are helping with some organizational stuff even though they're not coming to the event. Uh, I know that some people are coming just for the, the, the weekend to help with some nighttime shifts even though they're not staying for the rest of the event. Like, we have a very helpful community. There's a lot of really generous people who, like, are just really generous with their time, uh, here. And we could, we could use a hand on, on this, clearly. Um, so if we can spread the word, get through to these people, maybe we can figure out how to, how to support these teams a bit better and, like, I think it's worth again saying that, like, if there's not enough people for the, the, the actual building things team, well, we'll build fewer things, and we'll make sure to prioritize the things that really have to be built, and, you know, build what we can. Uh, that's always going to be the case for this kind of event. Does anybody have any other questions? Or questions about this, or statements, or... Yeah. Because, yeah, sure.

W: Uh, hi. Um, so I'm, uh, leading mom for now, which is nice to have, but not exactly critical.

Daniel T: (laughs)

W: Um, it's, uh... I guess, like, the sooner we know what we, what we've got, um, the better. 'Cause we are putting in the work to organize things, and there are volunteers who are coming t- out to, to help with it, um, so... But they... maybe they, they can be useful elsewhere if, for instance, mom doesn't, doesn't happen. Like, I'd love for it to happen, but if not, then I would be happy to help in different departments. Um, but I think we need clarity sooner rather than later when it comes to these decisions.

Daniel T: Right.

W: Um, this isn't something we can decide o- o- a week before. Like, w- we've got people coming in, we've got... We're putting in a lot of work already, um, and I'd rather have a... I, I'd rather have A elsewhere, rather than half an, uh, elsewhere th- where everything's like semi-built up and we need to drop things at the last minute. Uh, but that's, that's my opinion. Um, yeah, that's it.

Daniel T: Yeah. That, that makes a lot of sense. I'm curious. Like, I don't know... I think it's either... It's one of Daniella or Nurse or, uh, possibly Frank. Um, Daniella, I think. Like, how can we get that clarity?

Michael M (nurse): Pardon me, bro. You are exactly the person I was thinking of when I was saying we need to be mindful about suggesting or dropping structures.

Daniel T: (laughs)

Michael M (nurse): You took up the project, re-championed it last year, you've been running with it this year. So yeah, I think at this stage, there's no decisions, only discussions.

W: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael M (nurse): And I think, we, well... Do you know what? Maybe this is mom's year. If it's an event that's a third of the people less, I think we really need to reflect often how empty are our dance floors at this event year round. You know?

Daniel T: Mm-hmm.

Michael M (nurse): Most of the time during this event, there is, like, 38 camps and there's, like, 20 sound systems going at any one time, and sometimes it's people DJing to one. So, one is a faff to get up, but essentially it's a nice, big, communal shade structure. Maybe this is mom's year. Maybe we need to...

W: Yeah.

Michael M (nurse): ... give a taller event, we need to be pulling people in. Maybe there needs to be some masked nightclub goer. I don't know. Things are still up in the air. It's, it's an odd or it's an interesting year.

Daniel T: Mm-hmm.

Michael M (nurse): Uh, but, and like... Like I said, you, you came to mind. I'm cautious about people throwing out casual things where we can just not build this or not build that-... because there are people, you know, if the problem is that we have a dedicated team of people already willing to work on something, uh, that's, but yeah. I think perhaps also we have the next four weeks before we till hit site, and maybe these coordination meetings, maybe next week we can push that people are really here and have some good discussion-

W: Mm.

Michael M (nurse): ... about the conversations going on in the background. But whether or not something is half-built or not is, is sad. What would just upset me is if people like you who are really committed volunteers working on any of these projects were to feel that people are making decisions or pulling the plug. That's definitely not the case.

W: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Michael M (nurse): And we really appreciate what you're doing. It's just how do we pull it together and, like I said, if it's a smaller event, maybe this is, maybe this is MON's year, maybe we should be trying to... If it's a, if it's a smaller event, it, it will feel a lot smaller unless we really try and pull things together a bit more. But that's just my thought.

W: Yeah. Okay. Thanks.

Daniel T: Daniella, did, did you want to-

Daniela S: Yeah. I think, um, I think let's, uh, push for all the coordinators to be at the next meeting, and, um, make the decision there and then. I think when it comes to striking down or reducing the infrastructure, uh, what I often picture are like the stuff that it's not like for, I don't know how to put it, but for example, gates. It's, it's really nice you have like a really cool gate. Uh, we have this infrastructure that has been built throughout the years and it's like the first thing you come and see, and it welcomes you to the event. Uh, at the same time, if we don't have enough people to build that and those re- human resources can be used in a different infrastructure like MON, then we can use a cabin and, uh, shade to do gate this year.

W: Mm-hmm.

Daniela S: Also, with like camping areas, instead of maybe lifting infrastructure with wood and stuff that requires like a lot of work, maybe we use the infrastructure that we're gonna already have like containers and cabins, and do something like Overtown does. You know, that they put the shades on top of this things and create all of this area where people can rest, uh, and then, and that is a way to, um, you know, go around certain things. Um, I think MON, for example, is a space that's for the event. We just talked like a few minutes ago (laughs) before this call, you and I, um, and, um, and it's nice, you know. It's, uh, it's one of those things that we offer to the city and to the participants, so maybe that is what we need to decide next week, like, what is it, what are the infrastructures that we have? How many people, days we need for each infrastructure?

W: Mm-hmm.

Daniela S: Uh, how can we minimize this? And, um, which ones are we willing to sacrifice, let's say, quote-unquote, if we, the day reaches. For me, it's not that we won't do things. It're just simplifying the way we do it. Like, it's nice to have something that's really also aesthetically pleasing to the eye and to like art �... yeah.

W: Mm-hmm.

Daniela S: Um, but also there are things that are functional. And that can be done, not pretty but still there, and still, you know, have a place to sleep, to eat, uh, et cetera. So, I think that's, that's what comes to mind for me when we talk about reducing infrastructure.

W: Mm-hmm.

Daniela S: Uh, but yeah. Let's, uh, I'll send an email right after this to all the coordinators, so we will have that meeting on Wednesday and then we can collectively decide that together.

W: Okay. Thank you so much.

Daniel T: Cool. Thank you. I tried to unpin you but I failed. Um, there we go. Um, does anyone else have any other questions or statements or loud declarations of love or quiet declarations of love? (laughs) I'll hold the space for another minute or two and, uh, then if, uh, there's nothing else, uh, going on, um, then we can call this one done, and it sounds like there's definitely some conversations, uh, that need to happen to create clarity around what's, what we have capacity to build and what to, how to prioritize, and it sounds like those conversations are gonna be happening. Um, and yeah. I'll see some of you at Burning Burner, I guess. (clears throat) Anyone want to do a last-minute declaration? Uh, did I hear a, no?

Michael M (nurse): Yeah, I'm gonna make a declaration.

Daniel T: All right, got for it.

Michael M (nurse): ........................ complaining and counting and saying, "Who's not there?" So I'm really glad all of you are here. Like, I think it very easy in the midst of going, "Do we have, don't we have enough people?" Like, it's, it's kind of important just to reflect how many people are showing up. Uh, I wish we weren't this year, but I don't know, that's just the side of things. No, I think, I think it's really great. There's a lot of people who are really showing up and, and putting energy out there, and maybe just the past few years, we've gone really cocky and had great numbers and presumed everything is gonna be great, and then on site, it's a bit of a shit show, u- as it always is. So maybe they, they were just going in with eyes wide open. But yeah. I think, uh, a lot of appreciation for the people who are coming, and anybody who's leading a volunteer team or has people getting in touch, please do appreciate people and thank them for being involved so early and, I don't know, we'll figure it out on site. It'll, it'll probably be fine or something or whatever. Usually it will. So...

Daniel T: Chris-

Michael M (nurse): But yeah, I think it's really great that people are here and involved.

Daniel T: Chris, you sound like you want to say something.

Chris O: Yeah, I, I just wanted to add at the end as well, like, uh, posi- positive news is, uh, 'cause I, I looked in Humans the other day, and I saw that, uh, malfare, like nomads and everything, is covered for Friday night, uh, which is amazing. Uh, the rest of the week is pretty atrocious, don't get me wrong, but the fact that we have these dedicated, uh, both, uh, Malfare shift leads and nomads that are, uh, stepping up on absolutely the worst night, I, I mean, I think they all pretty much love doing it, so... And, and that's, that's their burn, and that's, that's often my burn. Uh, but yeah, I, I just wanted to, in, in the spirit of appreciation, just give a lot of appreciation to those people who have signed up for that. Um, I will be back with more, kind of-

Daniel T: Mm-hmm.

Chris O: ... Malfare recruitment talk at a different time. But, uh, but for now, uh, we're gonna be safe and happy on Friday night, and, uh, p- people have signed up to make that a reality. So thank you to them for that.

Daniel T: Thank you. And I know that one of these people is coming just for Friday night, which is fantastic. So (laughs) like, super grateful to him. Um, a- and I kind of want to also, like, just say, like, you know, in terms of the, like, all the stuff that was, like, hard, hard cliff, like, thanks to Daniella's help, thanks to the way that the community came together, we've got the permits. We've got the, like, the, the insurance. We've got the, the, um, sites booked. We've got the toilets. We've got all these things that need to happen for the event to happen, to be able to happen at all. Um, we've got the, the finance. Like Peter has been, like, super on top of the finance and the budgeting and stuff like that, so we're not going to be losing money as an event. And so with all these kind of, like, hard corners taken care of, can 2,000 people, 2,000 burners, not just 2,000 people, 2,000 burners, people like us who are, like, you know, quite resourceful and capable and adaptable and so on, can we manage to have a great week in the desert? I think we can (laughs) , but we need to figure out, like, a couple of compromises here and there, like bit of duct tape here and so on. But I, I'm very confident that we can figure it out, uh, even if it's not exactly the same way as it was, uh, previous year and we may n- need to make some adaptations. So, like, just want to finish on this kind of positive, uh, positive spin. Um, sorry, I can't help myself (laughs) . Cool. Um, I see Noah's asked for an accibility- accessible chart of what's meant to be built on what day. Um, that sounds really useful. Uh, yeah, I mean, I don't know if the, if, uh, the infrastructure team could come up with that. Um, that sounds like it would be really useful. And on that note, is there anybody else who wants to add something? Or shall we call it a day? Call it a cat? Meow, cat. (laughs) So cute. Uh, but no cats on site. (laughs) All right.

Fadija C: Yeah, I will... I, I actually, I wanted to ask something. Um, I've been reflecting on, on this whole, um, volunteer thing, and I remember when I went to Nowhere the first time in 2016, and we were around, if I'm not mistaken, 1600 people. Um, it was my first time, so I knew nothing about volunteering and building the thing. Um, but if it was made then, with, with less people than we have now, what, what's the difference? Why is it now harder to build than that then, assuming it wasn't harder, it wasn't hard or, uh, that year? You know what I mean? You know where I'm going? Um, was there more-

Chris O: Yeah, I-

Fadija C: ... people then, that then, and, but it seems that we, we are missing volunteers. So, so what is it that, that has changed that much? Or what is it that we are not adapting to the present situation? Or what can we do to make it easier for ourselves?

Michael M (nurse): Um, I think we weren't giving people days off at that stage. Um, we... A lot more of the workforce was just blunt, physical, repeat if necessary, so there's a lot more logistics and admin, having additional people take on certain tasks to make things easier. The event's gotten bigger. Um, there's a lot more barrios, so a lot more people channel their energy into that, which, to be fair, if you're signing up to the event, you know, coming for three days to build a barrio and hang out with your friends does seem objectively more fun, more interesting. Um, yeah, there's certain extra things that we do. Services have gotten bigger. Um, but yeah, I think there's definitely a scope of reflection. I, I think, you know, that, that would be the, the goal of any point, is to be able to pause and reflect. What do we do that's beneficial? What do we do that's superfluous? What do we not do that would be useful? Um, and I think just this year has been a... Because we've been so behind and rushing to create event, none of the reflection or pause has taken place. Um, and I think also, perhaps retention is a bit better. So as an event or a machine, you know, 2016, someone would come run our kitchen for a year or two, and then just leave and run away because it was such a horrible, unpleasant experience. So making it a more positive, rewarding experience, changing the culture, having additional volunteers means it's easier to take people on, to train people, to mentor people, to give people the scope to maybe fuck up a bit and learn. So, yeah, so I think in, in many ways, it's better, you know. I think y- y-... As an event, you can't just grow out, you have to grow up. Um-But yeah, the days off thing, I'm okay with people not having days off, but nobody else was. So uh-

W: (laughs)

Michael M (nurse): ... I think I'll stink with- I'll stick with the new people's way of doing things.

Fadija C: Okay, thank you very much.

Daniel T: Anybody else got a last minute question? Or maybe there's multiple questions, that's okay too. Sounds like we just need to crack the whip harder basically. (laughs) . Just, just kidding. That was a joke. For the record. (clears throat) Okay. Cool. All right. Well, have a lovely rest of the day. See you next week. See you on discourse, see you on Telegram, see you everywhere, and most importantly see you in the dust in uh, not that long. All right. Take care everyone.

W: Bye.

Michael M (nurse): Bye.

Daniel T: Bye.