Community Meeting Transcript

(mysterious music) (electronic beats)

Daniel T: Can you hear me? Yeah? Cool. We're a go. Thank you everybody for joining, 52 people, amazing. Um, it's still me, uh, well it was Chris last week, but it's gonna be me emceeing 'cause nobody from the community has stepped up and said, "I want to emcee this, uh, community call." But I'm sure someone will by next week. Um, so, um, the agenda for today is actually there's been a new item added, and so we're gonna start with this new item, which is, uh, the, uh, to do with the new site. So I'll hand over to Ward and Pablo to talk about this. Maybe not both at the same time, but yeah.

Pablo V: (laughs) Hi, Ward. I prefer the presenta- I had the presentation ready. Do you want me to share a little bit the latest?

Daniel T: Uh...

Ward D: Go ahead.

Pablo V: All right. Although this will be short. So there was some talk on Discord about, hey, now that the event is a go, should we use the new site? And I want to share what we have so far. Um, it's not a simple decision, and I'm just going to share a little bit what, why it could make sense and why not, um, and what are the terms that we got. So are you able to see my presentation? I guess yes.

Daniel T: Yep.

Pablo V: Good. So remember this is the last site. If you haven't seen it, there's some channel on information about it. It's cool. It's potentially much bigger than what we have. It's very close to the previous one. Ward had a plan of three phases of how we could use that. So, um, this part here, the part in the yellow area, is flat-ish and is the part that we can use. He proposed something like phase one. And for reference, this is current Knowe. This is the size, the actual size, of the current Knowe. Um, and this is the new site we have, so it would be bigger in the proposed phase one. In phase two, he's moving out things like parking. These are, uh, kind of the burial space and, and lightning rods and so on, and it could become even bigger. Now, what we are wondering for this year is obviously the simplest is to use the site that many of us are familiar with. Um, if we don't use that site, another option could be to use the new site and rent it. So I have asked the owners, and the owners would be willing to rent not everything, but this part here. So kind of, uh, 60% of it to us for 10,000 euros, which is less than we pay for the current site, if I remember correctly. But we would have to buy some lightning rods, um, which we don't have at the moment. We would have to flatten the land, which we do anyways, and it's, it's not a big cost, and we would need to build a road, which is also not a big cost. However, this has many consequences for things like city planning, barriers, power, because they would need to adapt to a new site. So, um, it's not something that, um, I feel like we can decide without talking about it. So the suggestion was that there will be a Meta Leads meeting. Um, I don't know if we want to also have that open or, or how, I think Meta Leads and barriers was proposed. So, um, we will be proposing a meeting, uh, if, unless anybody has some questions that we want to answer now, um, to discuss whether this makes sense. The timeline is short, um, but, you know, there's some pro- pros and cons, and we can talk about it. I think the general feeling is that we stay with current plan, but, you know, it's worth considering this in case, in case it suddenly makes a lot of sense. So that's the update.

Ward D: Well the also, I want to add, um, the reason why we, we moved this forward is that we could just came out of a meeting where the legal risk of the audit, um, is at medium level.

Pablo V: Mm-hmm.

Ward D: But, um, and, uh-

Pablo V: Yeah. M-

Ward D: ... so if we wanna act now, we should, because we have everything in place to make the change, um, and we still have time to install this and the local authorities are aware of this, but we should act fast.

Pablo V: Yeah, basically we, we have the permit pre-checked. We know the requirements that it would take. So it, it has become an option, and if we want to use it, I think we should talk about it and see how excited we are or how much work it is, and if we want to wait until next year. If it's not now, I think we could do a smaller event in September, maybe winter or March, whatever. Like, it doesn't need to be now. It's just something to consider.

Daniel T: Cool. Um, I think we can take it if there's any quick questions before we move to the next one. But if not, we can move to the next item.

Pablo V: Yes, we can.

Daniel T: And questions can come later, obviously, or on chats or and so on. Okay, doesn't appear to be more questions right now. So let's move to the next item, uh, which is, uh, loo- hold on, where is it? There you go. Asset procurement update. Pepe, yeah, you're here. Could you give us an asset procurement update?

Pepe C: Yes, very happy to give you, um, an update. We've had a very productive week in the asset procurement. We had very successful conversations with, um, GNSL. Uh, we are now directly in touch with their lawyers. Um, unfortunately, we couldn't have tacos with Paloma. That is very sad, but hopefully we will be able to have tacos with her another time. Allow me to put my legal hat. I forget I need to do this when I'm talking business. And...And, yes, we are looking at a meeting next Monday, and hopefully we can close the final tweaks to move the containers, which is the most important asset to start working on production. So, kudos to, uh, Paloma and Aaron for facilitating this and being super, super helpful on the process. That is the update. I will keep you updated on any new assets that we start working on the different pieces of, um, uh, what we need. Questions?

Daniel T: There's a question from Joao.

Pepe C: Joao. Here.

Joao T: (laughs) Bonjour. Uh, so just to be clear, uh, what, like, uh, (laughs) w- what's the general state of, like, the transfer of assets? Like, it's likely going to happen, it's just a matter of dealing with bureaucracy? Are there decisions that still need to be taken? Like, as in, what... what are the dependencies that are going to de- determine whether this event is going to be able to use the containers? Let, let's start with containers.

Pepe C: Yes. As of right now, it's a matter of drafting the actual paperworks that describe exactly what is moving and how it's moving. So one of the, we can say, limitations or... Not a limitation. One of the challenges that we are working around is an actual inventory. Do we actually know exactly what is in each of these, um, containers? Usually lawyers are very stiff about it, and they want to see a full on breakdown, so we're trying to work around it, figure out what is the best way to make a transfer that, uh, also does not create risk for either side, where, in the case something is lost, something is damaged, there is no, no loophole. So we're trying to work around, how do we document this in a, in a good way, um, and that makes everyone comfortable? Of course, if, um, everyone is happy to say, "Hey, this is what we know is in the container," and we are happy to sign that says that if there is anything else, we, we, we are counted as if it doesn't exist, so we will not claim it later, that will simplify the process. Um, we will need to do that for each of the containers. If not, we are trying to figure out what language makes a good... Comprehensive enough, but not crazy, let's go and open the containers, and, you know, do an inventory of how many napkins, dirty napkins, and, uh, dirty tongs are in there, mixed up with electronics.

Joao T: Right. So... But besides these technicalities and some bureaucracy, eh-

Pepe C: Yeah.

Joao T: ... GNSL ag- agrees, like... And what's being negotiated is a sale of the containers to the association? Is like some kind of renting of... Wha- what?

Pepe C: So, as of right now, yeah, as of right now, the document we have on the table is a license, so we will be licensing, AKA, renting, the container for a period of 12 months, and that'll give us enough, um, room to have the event and to sell back, and figure out exactly, once everything is de-risked, how we do a proper transfer of everything that is in there, which is a bunch of different things, um, that legally belong to GNSL, although, yes, we know technically and, um, informally belongs to the community, but because everything needs to have a legal owner, belongs to GNSL. Uh, we are exploring a couple alternatives on, on what we can do there, and if there is a way that we can expedite a transfer without creating unnecessary risk, or without creating any, um, you know, tax implication for either of the sides, or some li- liability implication, because it's a bunch of things in the middle of nowhere. But we are very hopeful that by Monday, Monday, 2:00 PM, uh, we have this meeting with GNSL's lawyers, we'll be, um, in a very good shape to say, this, this contract is almost final, and, uh-

Joao T: Awesome.

Pepe C: ... let's just figure out what, how to do the inventory. And, um, if we come up with-

Joao T: Okay.

Pepe C: ... a different strategy, it might take a week or two.

Joao T: Awesome.

Pepe C: Yes, that's it.

Joao T: So essentially, the NCA is going to be renting the containers from the GNSL, eh, for a year, and then, hopefully, in between this year and the next, there's a negotiation for a permanent transfer or something like that. I-

Pepe C: Correct.

Joao T: That, that's it.

Pepe C: That is the plan.

Joao T: Okay. And what about the digital assets? Like, namely the, like, n- name of the event, the, like, webpage domain and et cetera? Is there a conversation about this happening right now, or...

Pepe C: Yeah. So there is a conversation happening about all of the assets. In parallel, we are prioritizing the ones that are more critical for, uh, for execution, operational delivery. Um, the name, it's one of the things that we are putting on hold for now. As you saw, there was a survey about the new name, how do we, uh, go live so we don't have to wait here? One of the things that we are trying to avoid, of course, is we don't want anyone getting confused that we are the same company and the same festival, and then we have, uh... you know, inherit some of these, um, you know, um, problems that they had the years before. And the name seems to be one of the most complicated ones. So is there a possibility that we take the name later and we bring it back, mix match it or do something? Uh, maybe, but right now, the name we are putting, um, on the side, that we're looking for a new name, having this contest, exciting contest that Shauna is launching, where we will be having, uh, drawings and all sorts of, um, fun, cool things. There is a survey on your emails, as, uh, Ben is mentioning. There are, I believe, 26 options that we have there. So please go and vote, and, uh, use, use your democracy to choose a cool name. There's a, there's a couple of really cool ones there that I didn't know about. About other assets, um......databases. Um, this chat is on fire. Whoo! My goodness. 295. Um, digital assets such as databases of document is something that we're looking into also. What are the documents that we actually need, there are know-how, operational know-how that are separated from personal data. As, um, some of you may know, personal data is now more guarded than, um, oil in, in reserves because it's a very sensitive thing in... according to European regulations, uh, particularly GDPR. So, um, we are trying to move this at an organic level for now. We are making adjustments to the communication channels. We are asking everyone to get involved and to talk to their friends so we can have the outreach that we need in the... as, as we're trying to collect all of these databases and we can do a simplified outreach. But while we get there, um, we will need the support of, of the barriers. We will need the support of, um, supporters, members, attendees that are within your network. But yes, um, that asset is also under negotiation. We'll touch it lightly at the end of our meeting on Monday. And, um, the other item that we have is, um, the, uh, IP assets, which are some pictures which have questionable ownership. Who took the picture? Who owns it? Also, a bit hard to move it, but, um, yeah. We'll try to break it down. And there's thousands of, thousands of, uh, files trying to do a short list of what we need to go live. If you have, any of you have a specific request, there is a document, a set of document, a folder of things that you know you really need, um, let us know, and that's something that we can try to carve out, uh, while we filter out that. I believe that, um, it is 2500 files that are on the drive, on the existing drive. So, it's also a bit cumbersome to figure out which ones are useful, which ones are digital junk, and which ones are contaminated by people. Yeah, 25,000. By people's, uh-

Joao T: Correct.

Pepe C: ... name, ID, E- email, um, you know, player name, and so on.

Joao T: Uh, so essentially, the containers are being negotiated and, like, is on track for the NCA kind of being able to use them for this year under some legal stipulation. Uh-

Pepe C: Correct.

Joao T: ... the name is, like, this event is gonna run with a different name. That is-

Pepe C: That's correct.

Joao T: ... essentially decided. And-

Pepe C: Correct.

Joao T: Yeah. And then personal data of, like, the newsletter database and all that, v- still gray area, likely no for this year?

Pepe C: That's correct.

Joao T: Website also a no for this year, at least?

Pepe C: Website becomes irrelevant if the name is different.

Joao T: Um, well, because a lot of people go to that website, right? So, it's just... if there was a way to direct people from that website to wherever else, that would be, I think, sufficient at least, right? Like, we don't need down, ish. I would say that for the event to run, we wouldn't necessarily need the ownership over the website, but-

Pepe C: Mm-hmm.

Joao T: ... a way to direct people from there or at least say, "Hey, we are not running the event, but there's some other people running another event that you might want to check that's over there." I think that would be great.

Pepe C: Yep. We are look, uh, yes. Um, so we are not looking at acquiring or transferring the, the website per se for this reason. Same for the domain, for the, um, emails and whatnot. We are looking into what is the way that we can make an outreach push from their accounts and what does that look like. So far, too much expectations of everyone. Probably the best we can get away with is them saying, "Hey, there are these guys that are really cool. Go and check them out." That's something that we-

Joao T: Awesome.

Pepe C: ... could get away with. It's ne- something that we are negotiating, but nothing along the lines of, "Hey, these guys are... we're not doing the event, but these guys will be doing it," or, uh, "Go to this party in the desert, an unnamed party in the desert," but at least we are-

Joao T: Sure.

Pepe C: ... trying to figure out how to get there. Uh, that, again-

Joao T: Awesome.

Pepe C: ... is, is in, is in earlier path, but the critical priority, which is the, the-

Joao T: Containers.

Pepe C: ... physical asset containers, it's almost closed.

Joao T: Awesome. And I think that's great news already. Like, I understand it's not signed, but it's on track. Awesome. Thanks for the update, Pepe.

Pepe C: Anytime, my man. Anytime.

Daniel T: Uh, I think most of the questions in the chat are about the new sites rather than about, uh, Pepe's updates.

Pepe C: Perfect. No problem.

Daniel T: Uh, so I'll have them for later. And there's actually... yeah, I also have the next agenda point, which is the, um, what's it called? It's the e-Legal readiness update. I don't know if you've already covered this, but...

Pepe C: Yeah. So, uh, I think the high- the most important item of the e-Legal readiness update is the transfer of assets, the container. Um, a couple of lateral items. As some of you know, we're working on building the legal infrastructure for... it's e-Legal, you know, this is my Mexican accent, e-Legal. Um, my... we are working on building the infrastructure, very solid infrastructure, for NCA. A couple of the, uh, workstreams that we are working on are intellectual property. We're trying to have very clear guidelines and, and instructions on how do we keep track of what we own in terms of anything from, uh, pictures to collaborations to art. And we'll have a clear framework to share in the next probably two or three weeks. GDPR, we now have an appointed data protection officer, which you're looking at with his beautiful hat, um, and responsible for any queries around the use and the management of your personal data and all of the personal data of any person that comes in touch with NCA and whatever event we throw in the desert, the forest, or a lake. And the final one is that we are also working on, uh, all of the contractual arrangements, refinements that we will use as part of the ticketing, um, system. What are the things that people need to sign or agree to before they commit to going to the crazy adventure in the desert with us?... to build all of the rail guards and the, and the, the, the invisible hand that makes sure that this thing can outlive whatever happens in there, that no one will ever know because it's a different galaxy. So, those are some of the work streams. I will prepare a more detailed breakdown of what we're working on, um, with clear timelines for the next three to six months that I will share on the next call. And I will bring it back to Pablo and the Lands, which is an exciting update.

Daniel T: Um, I don't know if there's a new update. Like, there's not a second, uh, point from Pablo and the Lands?

Pepe C: No, no. But there is a bunch of questions for him, I think.

Daniel T: Oh, um-

Pablo V: I can move ... I correct those briefly if it helps. Uh, basically, um, a lot of people, um ... maybe I can also expand. People have shared with me concerns that if they are a Barrios, they need to rebuild major parts of the power system if there's a new site. Build people are concerned that, you know, we, we have a lot of experience, uh, but not for this site, so there would be a lot of evaluation, maybe extra visits. So, we can still discuss that in the meeting, and maybe the conclusion, I think, very likely, the conclusion's that we shouldn't use it now, but we could, maybe we could decide when do we want to use it and start to keep these things in mind, because maybe when we plan something for this year, or when we buy equipment, maybe that equipment can be acquired or prepared with the next site in mind. So, just a thought. Um, and, yeah, I think it, it needs this whole meeting to hear about it out.

Daniel T: Okay. Um, and there's a question for Pepe there, "For these legal issues, do Barrios need to get all members to sign up on the Nobody site, with names and contact info?"

Pepe C: Yes.

Daniel T: Um, well, no, I don't think so. Like, only, only if they're co- collaborator, they wanna be collaborators or members.

Pepe C: Um-

Daniel T: But they need, they need to sign up, they need to put their ... it would be helpful to put their email in the mailing list to hear about tickets, but for the collaborator-

Pepe C: Yep.

Daniel T: ... like, the Humans app, for example, uh, only people who want to be collaborators or members needs to sign up for that.

Pepe C: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Oh, member, so, yes, that's a distinction between a member of the Barrio and, uh, members of the association. So, for members of the association, yes, you need to sign up on the site. For members of the Barrios, no, we will just need, uh, basic contact and ... Yes, exactly. No need to herd stray cats, which I understand it's, uh, a challenge.

Daniel T: Yeah. Uh, by the way, there is a, a, an, uh, an FAQ. Thanks, Joao, for pushing for that, uh, and s- someone else who pushed for that in the Discord, explaining the difference between members, collaborators and volunteers, uh, in some detail on the FAQ. If it's not clear, uh, please, um, uh, get in touch and we can update the FAQ to be clearer. But hopefully it clarifies the tiers, uh, and what they mean.

Pepe C: Yep.

Daniel T: Um, okay. So, if there's no more legal questions, uh, let's-

Pepe C: I'm going to take off the legal hat.

Daniel T: Right. Yeah, please do. Uh, then, uh ... it's a very nice hat though. Um, let's move to ... let's change gears a bit, and move to changing gears from assessment to pre-production from Daniella.

Daniela M.S: Hello. (clears throat) Um, yeah, so my message is, uh, very quick, but it's also very symbolic. I think we've been talking about so many, um, assessments on different areas about the event, and now that we have decided to go forward, we are basically, uh, yeah, changing the gears. We need to, uh, enter the pre-production mode, which means that, uh, all the people involved, all the leads and people that want to be more involved and be leads, uh, can join and help us get this started. Uh, things will be more defined from now on. We will start getting things, uh, ready, and, yeah. So, basically, it's just a call for everyone, uh, to kind of like wake up and, uh, yeah, get your groove on. Talk to us if you want to help, and let's get ready to work. That on production. And, on tickets, quickly.

Daniel T: That is a next agenda item, so-

Daniela M.S: Yeah. Well, yeah, on tickets, basically, we ... that's our main priority, of course, at the moment, and we are getting ready to launch that. Uh, we're aiming for next week, so be very aware of your, uh, mailing marks and messages and everything to let everybody know, and get your tickets early, if you can.

Daniel T: Which is pretty awesome, um, and very exciting, I hope. Um, we can't answer, I think, how many tickets will be released right now, but we will know that by the time we release the tickets. Um, Joao, uh, you have a question, and then we'll go for Julian's question.

Joao T: Uh, one thing. I just saw a message going around today that Borderland is gonna sell another batch of tickets from March 10th. So, if somehow we are able to, uh, release our tickets, or some concrete information that tickets are go- ... like, the event is happening, tickets are either already being sold out or gonna be able to be sold at whatever date, I think that might be critical for us, because, uh, date of Borderland is, yeah, very close to nowhere. I think it's just two week, two weeks difference, which in other years I think is like three weeks. So, uh, particularly with all the uncertainty around whether the event was going to be happening or not, we might lose some critical people that are often leads in Barrios or involved in all the, um-Situations that might be critical, so yeah. Just wanted to bring it up.

Daniel T: Yeah. So, I mean, first of all, there is no doubt whether the event is happening. We are, we are having an event. We're gonna be selling tickets, uh, so there should not be doubts about that at this point. We've released the statement. Uh, Ben personally updates, and it's being spread by Shona, like a full s-... We released the statement on Monday after the Go-No-Go Vote, and we, uh, uh, we've raised our full statement, which will be the next agenda point to discuss. Um, I wanna take some of the other questions. Um, so how many tickets will be released, we... Uh, like, that will be answered by next week. Um, what can we help to, uh, do to help with ticket sales? Um, my sense of this is always, like, if you know people who would be interested in this event, and other kind of people who, once they know about this event, will come back and check and buy tickets and so on, then you can tell them now. If you know people who would be interested in this event, but they're the kind of people where you send them t-... se- send it to them once, and if they can't buy a ticket right away, they just lose interest, and they forget about it for six months, then wait until the tickets are available, which is gonna be very soon. Uh, you know the people that you know. You know how they're best approached, but effectively, because we don't have access to any massive mailing lists of people, we are relying on the informal networks of, uh, this community to be able to reach people, um, and we'll be doing our best to maximize this, uh, and the comms team will be, uh, doing some, some fun stuff to do that. Um, but how you can help is tell people and tell them at the right time, depending on what, what kind of person they are. Um, are there any thoughts about the deadline for ticket sales, like in previous years, so that numbers are a bit predictable? Um, I don't quite understand the question. I don't know. Daniella, do you understand the question?

Daniela M.S: Um, can... No. I can't.

Daniel T: I-

condor..: I could say what I meant 'cause I asked it.

Daniel T: Yes, please.

condor..: Yeah, um, 'cause I think it was maybe last year, um, tickets for sales were slow, and then instead of just waiting until the end and not knowing how many people are coming until the week before, I think there was a deadline that we're gonna, gonna be cut. So, we'd say, "Okay, it's gonna be, like, two thous... We're gonna cap it at this amount and give a deadline." Was that last year?

Daniel T: Right. So then-

condor..: Yeah.

Daniel T: ... then, then the answer is we... (laughs) The, the, the, the very, uh, political answer is we reserve the right to use (laughs) any tool at our disposal to manage the event responsibly (laughs) . As in, if that tool makes sense, then we might use it. If it doesn't make sense, then we won't use it. Uh, we can't decide that right now. There's too much uncertainty right now, but we will do what we need to make sure the event is successful and responsibly held, and you know, uh, doesn't make a loss and all these kinda things. So, there's a bunch of factors we're considering, and that might be one of the tools that we use. Does that make sense?

condor..: Yeah. I was also just think, s- kind of commenting that it's probably a thing that should be on people's radars when ticket-

Daniel T: Mm-hmm.

condor..: ... sales would be low, that it's a good thing to keep in mind that maybe wanna already start thinking about deadlining them and doing stuff to incentivize buying early.

Daniel T: Yeah, and I think that's, uh, I guess Joel's, uh, question. Um, Curious Creatures, uh, "Can we have a tiered ticket system, uh, ticket system price, even if it's a few euros, to incentivize people to buy early?" Uh, probably. Like, we're, we've been talking about that quite a bit. Uh, we haven't made a decision yet, but there's probably s- gonna be some kind of incentive for buying early. Uh, but a decision is not made yet, so don't hold me to it just yet. Um, somebody had their hand raised, but they seem to have lowered their hand. Uh, looking at questions. Um, I'll... It doesn't look like any obvious questions there, just discussion about the site. Uh, so let's move to the last point, and then we can take open questions, which is the, um, Go-No-Go full statement and Q&A. Ben, are you there? I don't know if Ben is here. There's one item here.

Ben D: I'm there.

Daniel T: You are there. Okay, you take this one. (laughs)

Ben D: Uh, hmm. The board has released a statement in the past, uh, hour or so. It's on Discord. It's in the updates channel. It's a, mm, full detailed, um, explanation of our decision to, uh, go this year in response to the community vote. Uh, I'm not sure what, really, I could add to that, besides just directing you to read the statement. It's a very nice statement, if I don't say so myself. Um, yeah, what-

Daniel T: I think it might be helpful to talk through the key points that you highlighted in bold there.

Ben D: Alrighty. (sighs)

Daniel T: Uh, if you mention those. (laughs)

Ben D: Key points, for those who don't wanna go and appreciate the beautiful statement. Um, so I think... I, I guess the, the, the, the key thing that, um, we really wanted to communicate with the statement was, was, was really, uh, that... We didn't, um, vote to go lightly, and, uh, we didn't do it, um, without really, really seriously considering the full range of opinions that was expressed, uh, throughout the, the consultation and voting process. Um, so it was really clear to us, uh, on the board that, um, obviously that, that, that there was a huge diversity of opinions in the community, uh, and that some people had, had really serious concerns, um, about, uh, about having an event this year. And so, eh, that, that was clear to everybody, and, and, and it was... It, it, it is important to everybody that as we move forward with the event, that we are doing our best to take those concerns into consideration. Um, and yeah, not just, not just kind of ignoring all of that and just, just blindly going ahead with, with, uh, blind optimism. Um-So yeah, you know, there's, there's, there's obviously a number of challenges particular to this year and, and, and our current circumstances, and, and, uh, we, we really see moving ahead at this point as, as an opportunity to try and address those challenges head-on, uh, and really, um, you know, create something new here that actually addresses a lot of the, the, the deep concerns that people have about the event, like, uh, about, um, uh, burnout, and, and, um, yeah, people, people getting over-committed in terms of the, uh, the amount of effort that they, they put in and, and how we run the organization. And, um, yeah, plenty, plenty of concerns. So that was, I guess, the main kind of spirit of the, uh, uh, of the statement.

Daniel T: Yeah, and I, I will add to this. If you're curious to see what the conversation was like, the board minutes from Monday, uh, we decided to, like, make them more detailed than usual to, to make it clear, like, you know, what's the positions and the, the, uh, how the conversation went, uh, so you can see how each, uh, board member, uh, and person in the meeting reacted to the, the result of the vote for yourself. Are there any questions about this? This could be the quickest community call, community call ever. Joao.

Joao T: Okay, again. Uh, so as you said, the event is happening, which means, uh, we are gonna try to make an event happen. Is there any situa- Because this is part of what people raise this question in the whole consideration of go, no-go. Like, d- like, so just as an exercise of, like, imagination, can you see anything that would actually prevent the event from happening? What if we sell only like 1,000 tickets, 1,500 tickets, or any other ca- catastrophe scenario that would actually prevent the event from happening? Just, like, as in trying to address questions that people might have come up, or just trying to do this mental exercise.

Ben D: Who, who wants to take that? Should... Do you want to take it, or should I take that?

Daniel T: I, I, I can, I can take, I can take part of that, and other, other board members, uh, want to step in can, can step in as well. Um, so yes, of course there are things that can stop the event from happening. The most obvious one being the thing that stopped all events from happening for two years, which is, you know, some kind of pandemic disaster happens, and like, or, I don't know, world war or some shit like that. Like, you know, obviously, uh, and, and, you know, one of those is not that unlikely at this point based on current world events. Um, so yeah, things can stop us from happening. If, uh, our legal advisors, which would be contradictory to what we've heard so far, but if our legal advisors told us that, "No, it's a terrible idea. You will get, you know, it, it will be a disaster," et cetera. Like, you know, your, everyone will get sued into the ground and stuff, then, yeah, of course, we would not put people at risk, either ourselves or our community or so on. (laughs) Yeah. Um, well, I don't know. Like, I don't know if you've seen the garden of joy during a storm, but, like, some places like to party even when the world is ending. Anyway, um, the... I think if we open tickets and we don't reach ticketing milestones, like, to a very large degree, then we might, uh... Like, we are working on a refund policy for that, uh, for early ticket buyers. Once we reach certain milestones, we'll be past that, but, you know, if somehow we've massively overestimated the interest in having the event, and we find that, oh, actually, you know, we only sell 100 tickets, let's say, then, that, that would be surprising to 70% of people on this call. Um, but if that happens, then, you know, that kind of stuff, we will have some, some, some triggers for our internal risk management that, okay, looks like actually, no, there's some kind of major issue here. Um, uh, in terms of production-related volunteer issues, I don't have an answer to that. Um, does someone else on the team want to step in on that? Laura, Daniela? So the question is, like, uh, Joao is asking questions more about production-related volunteer issues, uh, and Takeo is asking, "Are there milestones linked to key roles being filled?"

Daniela M.S: What was the last one you said, sorry?

Daniel T: "Are there milestones linked to key roles being filled?"

Daniela M.S: Uh, well, now that we're gonna change into pre-production mode, we need to be more decisive with things. So one of the things that we need to decide next week is which type of event we're gonna have. So we work towards that, and then also, the, the final world, the specific milestones and points of, uh, decisions. We have mapped, like, in, for different scenarios where we need to now make them very, uh, into the calendars and with numbers. We, we need to move into the next week.

Daniel T: Anyone else from the board want to step in?

Ben D: I guess the only thing I, uh, was feeling hearing that was that, uh, I think e- e- every member of the board is... has, has a, uh, personal, like, official stake in, in ensuring that the, um, uh, that th- the association is, is looked after basically. Uh, and so going ahead with an event when there is, uh, a, a clear and, and obvious risk that it, it could be, there could be serious consequences, uh, in doing so, that's, that's potentially personally impacting everybody on the board. Uh, so it's, it's just to say that...You know, as ... speaking for myself personally, but I know it's the same for everybody else on the board as well, we're all very conscious of, uh, moving forward responsibly and carefully, and with due consideration to, uh, the whole range of risks that could emerge, right, that could eventuate. Um, and we, and we, we all have an interest to do so, personally as well, besides even just our passion for the community and the event itself. So, uh, yeah, I know, like, personally for me, it's top of mind for me to, to be assured that we're moving forward in a confident and low-risk, uh, kind of way.

Daniel T: I'll move to the next question. Uh, regarding burnout, from Ellen, uh, "Not always easy for motivated noobs to know where and how to jump in to relieve pressure. Is it imaginable to set something up where overworked people can flag that they need a happy helper, even on a one-to-one basis? At the moment, the ClickUp says all roles are open and critical. This makes it difficult to know how to effectively help relieve pain points. Thoughts?" Um, I'll speak a little bit to this, and I think, uh, Daniela will also have something to say to this. Uh, we are talking about this quite a lot, uh, at the moment, and yeah, we wanna make it easier for people, like, create more transparency about, uh, how people can help. Uh, one of my formative experiences about the, like, doing the build at the garden was realizing that there were, like, even as somebody who was there for the third year or fourth year, I would be in the middle of build, I'm there, I've come early to go and help, and I'm standing around and I don't know how to help. And there's no clarity or information about, like, how I can help, and so I'd just, like, end up sitting idle and not doing anything, even though there's clearly a lot of stuff that needs to happen, but it's not clear for me how to help. So creating more transparency about how to help, making it really clear, making it easy for people to find out, I think is gonna have a huge impact, uh, on enabling people to help, and it is top of our, like, it is, there's a lot of things at the top of our list, but, um, it is high on our list, uh, to create more transparency, more clarity about how people can help. Um, and Daniela's ClickUp has been step one of this, but it's not the last step by any means. And Daniela, if you want to say something about this as well.

Daniela M.S: Um, yeah, so the list is, uh, still in the making. There are a lot of stuff that need to be updated just from this week alone. Um, uh, there are two ways in which the recruitment happens. So one way is a recruitment person or people getting in touch and trying to reach out leads for specific roles that are already designed and needed. And another one is the departments get together and discuss, and they reach to their network and try to also get people, um, for the roles. So right now, what, what, uh, has happened, um, sorry, I got distracted. There's a lot of messages in the chat. Uh, what has happened this past specific week is that, uh, a lot of people in teams are getting together. So the first point of contact usually is, they reach out to the people they worked with last year, some people that showed interest, and then from there we start, like, um, trying to figure out the needs. We, we, today, this afternoon, we had a meeting for the power team, for example, and some of the roles were discussed, some people took on some things, some people took on others. So those are being defined, and I think next week we will have a clearer picture. Also, the idea for the ClickUp, and we will populate that next week, is for the roles to have a clickable, um, file that you can go and check the description of that role if you're interested and see how you can get in touch. Um, so yeah, a lot of things will be moving quite fast in the upcoming weeks. Our priorities right now are definitely volunteers, leads, uh, tickets, (laughs) and yeah, and budget. So right now, those are, like, the main things in regards to the event, and we're moving full, you know, upfront with that. So a lot of things will start, like, falling into place in the upcoming weeks.

Daniel T: Thank you, Daniela. Uh, moving on to the next question, um, uh, TK asks, "If there is no Strike Lead by X date, what's the plan?" Uh, to which I want to also include Humberto's response, that seems like issues that will stop us from happening are issues that would have stopped us any other year as well. I mean, the, we don't have a specific list of dates assigned to specific roles, that we need this role filled by exactly this date. If there is, uh, if you have awareness that a certain role absolutely needs to be filled by this date, please let us know, and we'll make sure to, to, to communicate that and, like, point the recruitments team at this role and make sure it's filled as a priority. Like, Strike Lead, obviously, is quite important. But, uh, remember, we don't know everything, and if we're not acting on something, it might be because we're not aware of it. Uh, so please tell us what information you have about this, and we'll do our best to, to make sure that problem is solved. Um, Daniela, you wanted to say something?

Daniela M.S: Uh, yeah, I wanted to say that there are some things that have been flagged. I had a meeting this week, uh, for volunteers coordination, so there's, like, a lot of the concerns that are there drafted, and we have, um, some things, for example, a meeting to talk about this, and I will reach out to the people tomorrow. I was expec- waiting for the, for this announcements to go out, and then for tomorrow for the name, um, the voting on the name to close, so we didn't have so many communications and so many things at the same time. But yeah, uh, we will be having plans for this type of stuff.

Daniel T: Next question, "Can we say in our networks that, uh, something like event is happening, which will be named soon? Uh, or are we literally not allowed to mention the name?" Um...Ideally, don't mention the name. Um, we don't have use of that name, and it belongs to, uh, a company, and we are not, uh, uh, linked to that company and should not be using the name as much as possible. Um, but there will be a new name tomorrow, so you can mention that name. Um, question from Heiko, "Is UT coming, uh, is U- Ubitown coming, and/or Red Power?" There is an answer in the FAQ from last week from Javi, uh, in, on the website, so I'm not gonna go into detail into this. You can read the fairly detailed answer from Javi or go and talk to, uh, to Javi directly. There's a power channel on Discord to find out the latest news about that. Um, uh, s- I don't know if Ubitown is coming, uh, they've said they, they probably won't come. They might change their mind. I don't know. But there are plans to deal with the power grid. Still on... Joao, "Still on our disaster scenarios, what's our readiness to operate this event at a financial loss? They would sell 2,000 tickets but had budgeted for 2,500." So there, we are actively talking, uh, speaking kind of on behalf of the, the conversations we're having in the board, we are actively talking about how to budget sensibly given the uncertainty about how many tickets we'll s- we'll sell. One fairly clear approach is to have tiered, uh, expenses, like to have scaling expenses, so instead of committing to expenses as if we know we're gonna sell 2,500 or 3,000 or whatever tickets, we, um, we have some fixed expenses we know we need to take, and we have some expenses that maybe we can scale depending on, uh, the, um, uh, the sale of tickets. Um, with careful budgeting, we should be able to, um, uh, minimize the risk of, uh, of, of, of, of making a loss on the event, basically. Um, it should be possible. So, I, I think if we sell 2,000 tickets instead of 2,500, I don't think we'll make a loss with careful budgeting, basically. If we sell 1,000 tickets and budget for 2,500, but then we probably wouldn't hit our ticketing milestones in some way, and we would know about it much earlier, so then we would still figure out a way to minimize the financial loss. There, there are ways to, to manage these kind of risks. Um, Ant mentions that he can't edit the, that he can't edit the, the click list thing. Uh, if they did, we would have a full department, uh, of... Let Daniela, uh, handle this directly with Ant on Discord probably. Um, um, what other questions are there? Uh. I'm not seeing more questions in the list. Ah, Joao, to the rescue.

Joao T: Yeah, well, uh, so, uh, I, I think too a point that Humberto ha- also mentioned, and I feel that, like, a lot of the issues we have brought up are issues that would have affected us every other year. And that point, someone hearing this conversation might think that the organization of Nowhere in all the years was all flowers, which, like, we know it's not. In last year as well, at least for one year or two, I heard before the, like, or getting close to the event or before tickets were announced that there was a chance of the event not happening. So, I'd like to highlight that, like, some of these issues that we're facing now, and are very public and being dealt very openly, have existed in other years, but we just never heard about. So, uh, in a way, I'd like to, uh, invite everyone to then try to shift mentality from worst case scenarios and disasters into a, "The event is happening, and we are, like, organize this event with a level of transparency and participation that I think is unprecedented." Like, I'm pretty sure there were no 70 people discussing the organization of the Nowhere last year on a weekly basis, uh, giving input, and with a lot of access to the real situation, which then, I think opens the door for this event to be, at least in several ways, better than it's ever been. So, uh, while we are and up until, I don't know, last week, we were considering, "Can we do this? Can we not?" And there was a real, uh, possibility of the event not happening, like, particularly for example, if we didn't have access to the containers, at best we would have a very different, uh, event. Now, like, again, we have the opportunity to, like, run an event with the same level of production that we had in the past, and maybe some camps are not gonna camp, maybe there are gonna be new camps. But the type of organization, the level of transparency and access that we opened to the community, that is, as far as I know, and I'm pretty sure it's the case, unprecedented in Nowhere, and it opens, uh, to us the possibility of running, uh, an event that can be much better. If the board has also any other things that you see that could make this event better than it has been before, like to counterpoint the, the, uh, disaster scenarios that I was bringing up, I'd love to hear.

Daniel T: Uh, so ways that the event could be better than before to counter the, the disaster scenarios. Well, I mean, like, there are, there are changes. Like, I mean, uh, the, the first thing that comes to mind is, for example, the, the power grids. Um, there is, uh, I believe the power team is discussing creating kind of unified power grids and having a single team managing the entire power grid. That would probably reduce the amount of load on individual people, 'cause you don't need so many people managing three different power grids, or four different... Three or four? Like, a number of power grids, uh, if you have a single one. Um, I believe the, the build team has been talking about how to optimize the- their build as well to, uh, like, you know-... uh, manage... Uh, I don't wanna speak on Ans-, uh, the Ans and Takis, uh, in, in their stead, but I believe they have been talking about how to, like, what can be optimized to, to improve things. Um, I think the, um... I don't know. I'm, I'm out, I'm out of things to mention right now. My brain is giving a blank. But if, uh, somebody else wants to step in and help answer Joao? Are you saying something, Diana?

Daniela M.S: Um, I was gonna say something, and then I read a message and got distracted.

Daniel T: (laughs)

Daniela M.S: Um, okay, sorry. It's been a long day. Can you repeat, Joao, uh, or can you summarize, Daniel? So, because I heard you talk about the grid and...

Daniel T: Yeah, I talked about the grid and about the builds, uh, like optimizing the builds. Um, and, like, the que- Joao's question was about things that are, uh, being done better or that we're already planning to do, to do, to improve. Um-

Daniela M.S: Um, so, well, I can talk briefly about the meeting that we have about power. Um, the, the kind of joint work is more about supporting each other. Each grade has its own way of working and has been for the past years. Everybody knows, like, what they do. Especially Yellow Grid and Red Grid are very self-sufficient. And where we're lacking volunteers this year, it's in the organization, uh, power team. But today, for example, um, one person from the team last year joined, they're coming back. They've already found another person to take over from one of the other teams. And the last year team is really open to transfer knowledge and get together and, uh, write a lot of things. So yeah, I think we're facing challenges that are, uh, common to the event and any event of this magnitude, you know? It's a community event. We... Eh, it depends on everybody putting their little, you know, grain of salt. And, um, I think one of the good things, for example, that came out of that meeting is that all of the grids are in communication since now, which is very early for the Mario grids, for example. And we're also in agreement of creating documentation and trying to put all of their knowledge that it's in everyone's brains into paper. You know, put it in a doc, have it in the drive, being able to share it with each other, and kind of support each other. The people that have more experience, to talk about what has happened before, and the people that are new and are really enth- enthusiastic on taking on those roles, then, uh, you know, they have the energy for it. So, I think, um, yeah, we, we have a lot of that energy, and, uh, I think it's just a lot of work that's gonna come. Uh, I think also that's why we're all here. We kind... We love this, (laughs) so, yeah.

Daniel T: Yeah. And actually, one thing that, uh, I could mention also is that, uh, if you look at the Gate Greeters, uh, channel, they're talking also about optimizing the, the road tests to avoid burnout of gates and greeters. There's... Like, each, each area has a lot of autonomy to go and optimize how they, how they're doing things. And I think they are taking that opportunity, the opportunity this year to, to optimize things. Uh, I move on to the next question. "When are volunteer roles opening?" Uh, I know Mad's given an idea of interest. So, we will be deploying probably fast... There is some conversation about another tool that was developed by Creme Brulee, I think, that is being considered, but it... I don't think they made a decision. It's probably gonna be FIST this year. But we'll be op- having that open before we release, uh, tickets. Because typically, it's much harder to get people to sign up to shifts after they bought the tickets. It's much easier to get them to do that, like, immediately after they've, they've bought the tickets. Uh, controversial proposal, uh, "How about a bit of paid promotion or marketing?" Uh, I mean, eh, uh, we don't have budgets right now.

Lana B: Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Daniel T: Sorry, someone mute that. Um, we don't have any budget right now, so paid promotion and marketing is a little bit more complicated. Um, (laughs) I don't think... I mean, I don't have any ideological opposition to that. Maybe some previous people had. But we don't have the budget for it right now, unless somebody donates the budget to do it. Um, so, I think there's gonna be more guerrilla marketing right now. Um, next question, or statement, I'm not sure where this fits, but "Commonplace is going to discuss, uh, to downsize their usual camp activities and structures to have, among other reasons, more capacities of volunteering on NCA shifts. Maybe this is an interesting scenario for other barriers too." I mean, my, my reaction to this, as longtime gardener, is, I absolutely will be talking to other people at the garden and saying, "We need to do a much bigger push to get people to sign up for an org shift, uh, for, for NCA shifts." Um, uh, we... Like, the, the organization needs, needs help right now. So let's... Yeah, no, let's, let's do this. And I think, with a proper push from the, the camp leads, there will be more volunteering from the garden, which I think maybe is traditionally a camp that doesn't send as many volunteers for, for, uh, uh, event shifts. Um, and hopefully we can improve that. I have that intention, certainly, and probably, like, maybe other camps, other barriers have that intention as well. Um, that feels like, you know, worth highlighting. Um, "I'm sure the comms team would love to get paid." Oh, maybe. Uh... Uh, yeah, other questions? I mean, I'm scrolling down. If you feel like you want to speak your question, feel free to raise your hand, or just speak.Yeah. And the garden is also gonna help by, uh, like supporting, uh, part of the power grid, um, as Julian mentions, but also all volunteers. Uh, I'm, I'm certainly gonna push for that. Isn't "no marketing" one of the principles? I don't think "no marketing" is one of the Burning Man principles. Um, it's got "decommodation," which is maybe the closest one to "no marketing," but, um, that can be interpreted as "no marketing." But I think that's open to interpretation.

Jeronimo F: Mm. Marketing should be allowed. Uh, Burning Man does a lot of marketing.

Daniel T: (laughs) There you go. Um, we just need to find the budget for it. Currently, do not (laughs) have ambassador-type efforts. Yeah. I mean, maybe some of those people who are going to Borderland instead can, uh, be recruiters for next year's event. (laughs) There's a lot of chatting on, but not a lot of those are questions. Okay. No questions. Anybody wanna raise a hand and... Oh, Ant, please type your question. Thank you. Okay. I have to speak to them. "I want to start a podcast. Does anyone have experience?" Um, yeah. Get, get in touch. I have experience starting a podcast. I'm happy to help. Get in touch with me. Uh, I'll happily have a chat about how to start a podcast. I have had a podcast before. Yeah, just ping me on this board. I mean, on this ambassador thing, since there's no question, I'll just talk about that. Like, we are all ambassadors, uh, of, of the event at this point. And because there are no, um, um... W- we don't have existing mailing lists and so on, we need that especially this year to build the awareness of, uh, this, this, this new event. Um, so whatever ideas you can come up with to get, uh, more people to be aware of it, like, that's our marketing. Uh, plus whatever the comms team comes up with. Victoria, you wanna speak?

Wouter B: Yes, there is multiple ways of doing this. Um, maybe it's also an idea of, like, for every person you bring on, you maybe get sort of, like, a point so that you sort of gamify it. Just like, uh, when you bring in new people in the company when they're looking for people. It's also a way of doing it.

Daniel T: Yeah, I mean, I've just started a new job, uh, um, a couple of months ago, and I'm convincing everybody there to come to, uh, to this event. (laughs)

Wouter B: But, uh, yeah, also regarding marketing, uh, I'm not really into it myself, but don't you have, like, customer acquisition costs? So it's, you have to see, like, how much does the marketing cost, and, like, how many people in the end does it bring in, let's say, if you do marketing to see if it's sort of, like, a worthwhile endeavor?

Daniel T: Yeah. I mean, depends on how you do marketing. So there's ... I don't wanna get too technical, but there's, you know, uh, pay-per-click-type marketing, or there's more sort of awareness-campaigns-type marketing, and, um, um, paying people to do marketing can be helpful. And... But right now, we don't have money to do it, so we can't do it anyway. Um, is it legal to buy ma- the marketing emails from GenSL? Um, I, I don't wanna answer the, the legal question, 'cause Pepe has unmuted himself, so I'll let him answer.

Pepe C: Yeah. So there is nothing illegal in buying it, but as of right now, we don't have the funds, and it can create, um, some friction while we're trying to figure out a few other more critical assets, like the container.

Jokin C: No, it's absolutely legal, because you have to give the permission to your data to be sold before it can be sold.

Daniel T: Sorry?

Jokin C: So it's not, it's not legal.

Pepe C: Yeah, it's not a legality issue. Uh, what can happen, like, if, if, if that was a consideration, then they will need to make an announcement that the data will need to be shared with a collaborator, partner, company, which is us, for what reason. They will need to document a lot of, um, what is the data being used for, by who, and then they will get an announcement where they can opt out or where they are required to opt in, and then it will happen. So it's not actually buying the database, but there can be a, um, a contractual reason for the data to be shared. But yes, it's not something we are exploring, because it's very cumbersome, and it creates a lot of risk, and it's, um, massive problem to integrate.

Jokin C: That's it. You can believe that they sent the email by them to ask that you... That is what you say. You are... They are selling it, or that they are selling it from there, not s- selling that to... Selling it to us so we can use it.

Pepe C: Correct.

Daniel T: Um, picking up the point that, uh, Sacolo just made, all we would need are some beautiful, uh, some cre- some creative and beautiful flyers and then give these to people we feel would be a good addition to the community. Uh, I believe there is currently a competition started by comms to create a logo. And if you, so join the comms channel and say like, "Oh," like, you know, "I'd like to design a flyer. I'd like to use a flyer," um, you probably will get some, uh, some response there, and like start conversations and those flyers will appear somehow. Um... Like from the '80s. Um, okay. Um, I'll give it another minute, see if somebody comes up with more questions. Otherwise, we can end it. It's been about an hour and s- well, it's been about an hour. Someone have a question? Oh, there is one question. Romy? Romy, would you like to speak? We can't hear anything right now. I don't think they're muted, but somehow there's no sound. Oh, it's annoying. If you type your question, I can read it out. May- maybe, uh, so if you're in the same house, maybe use Kondo's, uh, Kondo's, uh, laptop.

condor..: Romy's gonna type the question.

Daniel T: Okay. Uh, in terms of using BM connections, we should address this point while waiting for the question to be typed. Um, yeah, if you've got those connections, let's, uh, like connect them to the, the comms team and, and, and use them. We're not at BM events right now. We are, we are talking to BM. Uh, some of us are going to the ELS in, uh, in April. Um... Romy, on the NOWHERE Euroburner Facebook group, some people say 20- NOWHERE 26 is going ahead using that name. Is this something we need to be concerned about? Uh, it would be better if they didn't say that, um, because it's not true. Uh, we cannot control what statements people make on, uh, on Facebook or in other places. Um, but there... It's not NOWHERE 26. There's no NOWHERE 26 event. There is an event yet to be named. Well, the poll will close tomorrow. Um, uh, and it's not NOWHERE 26. So it's not ideal if they, they say that. And GNSL might have some thoughts about it. Uh, do we have BM connections if NOWHERE was not part of the official regional network? I think NOWHERE has, obviously, an official connection to BM. Pretty sure it did. Uh-

Michelle T: It did. Yes.

Daniel T: Yeah. Okay. Um, so I don't think it's th- they were ignoring us. Can we still use all the Facebook groups? Pepe, would you like to take this one? Like the NOWHERE Euroburners group?

Pepe C: What is the question? Sorry, I got distracted too. Um-

Daniel T: So she asked: Can we still use all the Facebook groups, Euroburners, et cetera? We should be in those group, uh, we should be in those groups telling people what's happening.

Pepe C: Yeah. The short answer is, uh, no, because those groups belong or, whereas... Unless they were, um, community-led groups, which could be a different case, we need to look one by one. But if it's something that was created by, um, and managed and controlled at some point by leadership of GNSL, then that's not something that we can use. We are releasing now, I was about to do it, um, a set of guidelines for communication channels, uh, on how to start the process of redirecting people into the new ch- the new channels, and, um, which are being created by the board of, of NCA. And then we can... And I know it's a, it's a hurdle, it's a hassle, but for cleanliness, for creating a new home that is, um, completely clean, it's part of our, of our, of the housekeeping that we need to do.

Daniel T: Michelle, you have something to add to this?

Michelle T: Yeah. Um, I'm one of the many, um, moderators on various, um, burn groups. Um, the Euroburners one in particular which was mentioned, it isn't owned or run by NOWHERE. There's a lot of NOWHERE focus on it, but it's not actually run by NOWHERE. It's used for all groups all over Europe. Um, so-

Pepe C: That's fine.

Michelle T: ... as, as I understand, yeah, we can, we can post what we like on there as individuals. That'd be fine.

Pepe C: Yeah. Anything that, anything that is either community-led, like someone created it and then it just, just kinda took legs, um, or anything that is part of a larger ecosystem, community-based and has not been used by or actively as part of...... advertisement or, or management by, by the previous organization, it's fair game. If you have questions, shoot me a text and we can look at case-by-case, and we can make the qualification there.

Daniel T: Joao has a question of, "What does it mean to be an official BM event? Are there pros and cons? Do we want that, and what would we need to become one?" I can't answer that. Maybe somebody can. Michelle?

Michelle T: Um, I can kind of answer that. Um, yes, there are pros and cons. So, the pros are that, you know, we get advertised on, you know, we get a space on the BM website. We will be on there somewhere. Um, from what I understand from talking to previous directors and things, the big pro is that should we have legal problems, sometimes they are able to help with legal advice and, and that sort of thing. Um, we also get invited to ELS and that sort of, um, that side of things. We can also use, um, the ten principles and say we are an official Burning Man Regional, which is important to some people and not important to others. So, that, yeah, there are reasons why Burns do it, um, and some Burns discuss it and never go down that route. So yeah, it's definitely, it's a balance.

Daniel T: I, I have no idea what the timelines and requirements are for becoming a, a Burning Man Affiliated, uh, or B- Burning Man Regional. Um, but we, uh, so NCA, like, some people from NCA have contacts with people at Burning Man, and we will be talking to them, and we may well try to obtain that status, um, maybe before the event this, uh, this July. I would be surprised if there was a cost to be an official BM event. That would seem like, uh, unhelpful. Okay, um, any more questions?

Michelle T: Can I just say, on the legal side of things, just bear in mind that they are based in America and we are not. So, how... I've heard, you know, a variety of opinions on how helpful their legal advice is, but it is there.

Daniel T: It, it, it is-

Joao T: Um, Michel-

Daniel T: ... definitely worth the stream. Go on.

Joao T: No, I w- I was gonna ask if, Michelle, you are the one that seems to be certain that, uh, Nowhere was an official event. Do you know of any actual benefits that we've had for being an official event besides marketing? Like, any actual support or any direct positive influence or negative?

Michelle T: Yes, um-

Joao T: Like restrictions or whatever.

Daniel T: Oh, Paloma also confirmed on, uh, on the chats that Nowhere has been an official Regional for 20 years.

Michelle T: Yep. Um, yeah, I don't know the details because I haven't been involved as a director before or anything like that. But yes, I know that there is, ther- they have been useful and helpful in, in various circumstances to the people organizing the event, yes.

Daniel T: And Justin says, "They saved our asses with ticketing at least once." Whatever that, that means specifically. Probably a fun story. Any other questions? Give it another, another minute, and if there are no questions then we can end it. Um, I won't take that question, sorry. Quite interesting though. Um, okay. Um, so, great. Thank you very much for joining today. Like, there was up to about 75 people in this call. That's amazing. Like, we're still, like, you know, 5th of March. There's a lot of energy. It's, it's amazing. I tend to be optimistic, um, but I'm very optimistic with everything that I see. And, uh, I look forward to, um, continuing to see the momentum build up and selling tickets next week. All right. Take care, everybody. And feel free to continue the conversation on Discord, and if you have any questions, ask them there, and, uh, ask them anywhere else you want. Discord, WhatsApp, Telegram, et cetera. Thank you very much. Have a lovely evening. Take care, everybody. Bye.

Pepe C: Where's the music? No music today.

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