Community Meeting Transcript

Daniel T: (music)

Chris O: All right. Perfect. Thank you, Daniel. Uh, and, uh, thank you, Anna and Ella for- (laughs) for a bit of magic. Uh, welcome one and all to another, uh, community meeting, uh, for any one of you who is new. Uh, we’re very happy to have you, uh, to… Uh, well, uh, as usual, probably have a little Q&A at the end. So if you have any questions, feel free to put them in the chat, and we’ll try to get to them, or, or you can kind of raise your hand and, um, and, uh, let us know, and, uh, we’ll get to you when we’re through our agenda. Um, we have a bunch of different stuff to talk about today. Uh, I’m not going to list all of them, but, uh, there are various updates about �… about the Go/no-go update, which some of you will have gotten an email about. Um, and other things like that. Uh, but the first item we have is an update from Pepe. Pepe, are you… Pepe, are you happy to do that, uh, about our transition and the work that is happening with Going Nowhere?

Pepe C: Absolutely. Thank you very much. Let me put on my legal hat first. Now that I have put on my legal hat, I can, uh, give this update. We’ve been working, um, very hard with the team from GNSL, and we’ve made a lot of progress since last week. Uh, like we mentioned, our priority is to move the containers and some of the historical documents of the know-how of how to do the event. I would like to, to take a moment here and, and do a big shout-out to, to Paloma and Erin that have been working around the clock. They’ve been real troopers. They’ve been super collaborative, and, and it’s been super helpful. So it’s really nice to see how these teams are coming together. So if you guys could, you know, unmute and then just show some appreciation, make some noise and, and, and shout it out for Paloma and Erin, because they’re really doing a good work, and, and I think it’s worth it. Some, some of these things get lost, uh, as we, you know, do papers and other, uh, not-so-entertaining things. So thank you, Paloma. Thank you, Erin. We know this is a, um, a flex, and people have other jobs, so we really appreciate it. And yes, we’re making progress. We’re hoping to have… We have a couple of contracts that, uh, they’re reviewing right now with their legal teams. We, um, believe that this will be turned around very soon, and then we will have the, the first blocks or the first solid blocks, uh, that will give us access to, to some of these items. And, uh, in the next 48, 72 hours, we will be releasing a couple more contracts for them to review, aiming to have a li- a little bit of clarity of all of the, the landscape and the paperwork that we have. So lots of progress, lots of momentum. So, uh, let’s keep it up, guys. And that’s the legal update from this side. And I will now take off my legal hat unless there are questions.

Chris O: Doesn’t sound like it. Again, if anyone…

Tyche S: Um, there are… I do have some, some questions, but they-

Chris O: Yeah, go ahead.

Tyche S: … are kind of, um, related to legal, but also to the Go/no-go. So it can either be now or it can be in that section.

Chris O: Uh, let’s, uh, take questions for the, under the Go/No Go, so we can present that properly first.

Pepe C: Okay.

Chris O: If that’s okay.

Pepe C: All right.

Chris O: Uh, cool. Thank you, Pepe. Uh, we will then, uh, move on to, uh, sorry, just doing two things at once, uh, yes, to ticketing updates, uh, from Pablo.

Pablo V: All right. This will be short.

Pepe C: Um, Chris, sorry. It seems, so, so there are … There appears to be a question in the chat, uh, from this topic.

Chris O: Uh, yeah. Pepe, if you want to give a quick answer to that, then, uh, feel free to do that.

Pepe C: When can we expect an answer regarding the contracts? Um, we understand that we will receive a first draft of written communications tomorrow, sometime through the day, and that, uh, first response will include some of the details of some things that are missing in the drafts that we released or some things that the GNSL team need for them to move this forward, and of course, uh, make sure that both the assets, uh, that we need so, so desperately to put this together, and also the two organizations are protected. So we’ll receive that tomorrow and, uh, based on that, which we have no reason to believe that it will be, um, very critical, we’ll be able to turn around second versions through the weekend and have something for them, uh, by early next week. And of course, if all, you know, stars align, like I said, it’s a lot of work and, and Paloma and Erin have, uh, regular jobs and lives, uh, maybe we could be signing at least one or making progress with one of those end of next week, uh, which will get the, the ball moving and give us access to at least the know-how, which is the most straightforward. Containers probably or hopefully the week after. It’s also important that, uh, Paloma and Erin are coming to Barcelona next week, and, uh, we’re gonna carve out time to sit down with them and try to work with the legal teams and, and iron out as much of the work as possible in person, which always, um, generates more traction and facilitates. There’s, uh, texting and emails are a bit tone deaf, and, uh, hugs and gifts and other banter and, uh, entertaining activities tend to make these things easier, better, faster, when you can just share opinions and emotions and smiles and hugs on the table.

Chris O: All right. Thank you. Uh, hope that answers your qu- question, Diego. It looks like it does. Uh, Pablo, Pablo, the floor is yours.

Pablo V: Thank you. This will be fast, but we’ve been looking into should we, over next decisions, we decide to go forward with the event, what to use. There were some questions in the chat, so I just want to share that I went ahead and I did a quick test, um, and this is working. So there’s a few platforms. We found this one called Ticket Tailor where the price was drasti- drastically lower, so it could be a good candidate. It could save us up to 10 to 15,000 euros in fees. Um, I’ve gone ahead, and now that we have the tax ID, um, I did a test account with actual, the actual details and basically this is like the options that we have. We can search by card, Klarna, um, things that allow some people to pay with their bank, Google Pay, Apple Pay if it’s in your phone. And I did go forward and create this one just as a test, but I actually paid for it and the whole process worked fine. So this is an actual ticket that I paid for. It, of course, is not valid and the price is made up and everything, but this is money that is, uh, received on Stripe. And for whoever has worked with Stripe, you can see the money collected here, uh, minus a small fee. It was 1.6% in this case with a regular card. And you can see that all the details worked. I did this with Apple Pay. So this is looking good. Uh, if anybody has experience with ticketing, I will be sharing all this. Um, and yeah, I will relay this information to whoever leads ticketing in whatever the next event is. But, uh, that’s … Let’s share that later then.

Chris O: All right. Uh, well, you have the next item, which is the name update anyway, so feel free to keep going.

Pablo V: Yes. So for the name, um, at the moment, we don’t have an indication that we would be using the name Nowhere this year. So, uh, we, we have collected a bunch of name suggestions, and because the Go/No Go poll went out today, we will give everybody a day or two and send, send the name poll maybe tomorrow, the day after or Monday. So it’s coming very shortly. It will be in your inboxes, uh, for those of you that are onboarded in the Humans app, and, uh, you’ll be able to, to vote. They probably will give you three options. You’ll be able to rank your three favorites out of a list of 25 or 30. So keep an eye on your inboxes, and we’ll also post an announcement once, once that’s ready.

Chris O: Thank you very much. Uh, Daniel, I believe you are up next-

Daniel T: Yes.

Chris O: … to, uh, talk about, uh, a bit of decentralization.

Daniel T: And I hope my mic works okay, and if it doesn’t, I’m sorry. I’m having, uh, strange troubles, but it seems to work. I was able to play music. That was a good one. Um, anyway, um, the, what I wanted to share there was, um, it feels really important to me and, um, it’s around the sort of-… hierarchical or non-hierarchical nature of what we’re doing. Um, a, a big difference between what we’re creating here and the typical companies that, uh, many of us work in, is that, um, we’re not trying to create, uh, an old school pyramid with control at the top and, um, just everything being decided effectively at the top of the pyramid or delegated downwards or that sort of stuff. We are a burn. We’re a participatory, uh, event. The event is created by everybody here. Um, it mostly doesn’t make sense for, from our perspective on the board for all the decision-making to be centralized. And all of us have discussed and agreed that eventually we want the boards to have no real operational executive input, just basically sign off on what the event organize and be the interface to the rest of the world. Um, and this matters a lot to states outright and to repeat, because, well, so many of us are used to working in hierarchical organizations and so that’s the background that we kind of bring and so we expect, well, there’s gonna be, if there’s a president of the board for example, that means this president is in charge. And I wanted to make it very clear, for example, that whilst we needed to have a president, because legally we are required to have a president and a vice president, and I think the treasury is a third one, or maybe secretary, one of those two. Uh, so we’re legally required to have those. Um, for example, as a board, we don’t operate in a hierarchical way internally. Um, I asked Claudes to review all the minutes of all the board meetings that we’ve had, and he confirms that every single vote that we had was unanimous. We talked until we reached consensus and we agreed. In theory, um, the president can tie a break of a vote and is slightly different from the other roles, but in practice that’s never been at all relevant. (laughs) Yeah. Um, I ran a company with Holacracy for several years, um, but slightly off topic for this meeting. Although it might be, it might be useful for the, the, the future of, uh, of this event. Um, and so this kind of democratic approach is also what we want to see flourish across the, the, the whole event, across the whole organization. But there’s a danger that we have right now, which is we’re trying to do a lot of things at the same time under pressure, and we are kind of blurring these boundaries between the board and the executive because we needed to bootstrap with something. We need to get something going and we couldn’t just wait for the organization to appear. We needed to, you know, file various things, get this, this, uh, like so get enough people involved so that this go-no-go decision could happen, work out the legal things and so on. There’s, there’s just so many things. Create the Humans app to go and track people, create the Google Drive. There’s been so many things that we’ve had to do and the danger is it, is that it leads to kind of concentration of, of power, um, and a kind of, uh, lack of transparency, not through desire not to be transparent, but through a simple overwhelm. And I’m gonna single out Peter ‘cause he agreed to be singled out on this, but he woke up this morning to a hundred twenty emails in his inbox. And, you know, that’s the Nowhere-related (laughs) emails, like not, not the rest of his life. And there’s a point where you’re like, okay, I’m just trying to get things done and so I’m moving quickly and so he, like you can appear to be, like withholding information, but actually it’s just that you’re overwhelmed by just the amount of stuff that you’re doing. And the solution to that, I mean, one of the solutions is, you know, in, in hierarchical organizations is just delegation, go and build the team and delegate to them and so on. But there are other possible structures like Holacracy for example. There’s other ways to structure work, there’s other ways to expand the, the, the way that we do the work together. And so for me, what I’m asking for in this point is I’m kind of making a call out that we have a problem here as a, as a board, as a, as a community. The board represents the community. We want to avoid this kind of concentration of power. Also, the concentration of activity has a tendency to cause eventually burnout, and this is a community where we have had a kind of history of burning through, uh, like people who contribute a lot to the event, and that’s not something we want to happen. We want everybody to enjoy the event, not some people to be massively overworked And so my call is for whoever is interested in this topic who wants to bring new, new solutions, new ideas to create better ways for us to decentralize the work, better ways to create clarity and transparency about the work, better ways to make it clear to people who want to contribute that, hey, here’s a place where you can contribute so that they can actually get involved and they know how to slot in and how to, to participate. If that’s something that you’re interested in, please join this conversation. I’m not even sure which of the groups is right. I’m not coming here with a solution. Um, but Ben is probably a person that is very interested in this, so he can be a person that, that, he’s probably a person that’s gonna be part of this conversation and as he’s got his hand raised so I’m gonna hand over to him

Ben D: Yeah. No, I just wanted to, uh, also put my hand up into that conversation as well because it’s, I, I actually, I think you spoke beautifully Daniel-

Daniel T: (laughs)

Ben D: … to be honest, and said it very, very well. Uh, and th- th- they’re all things that I, uh, are also i- important as well. Uh, but even more specifically, personally, I have a real passion and interest, uh, in organizational design and, and, and those kinds of coordination structures. So, um, that’s something I’d be, I’d be very happy to, uh, be a first point of contact for anybody, uh, who, uh, would like to contribute to the way this association works, the way this association functions on a coordination level, how we organize as teams, how we all, how we coordinate between teams, uh, how we distribute the decision-making, the authority. All of those questions, uh, are questions on my mind, uh, priorities for the association, and ironically enough, not something I’ve had the time to give energy to personally to be, to be, uh, you know, putting in motion.Um, so I, I, I have already had some interest from some people, uh, last few weeks, which is great. So I’ve already got, a kind of a short list of people who I know are interested in this kind of stuff. Um, and so I’m looking for more interest. So if, if, if anything that Daniel’s spoken about, or I’ve just mentioned, is, is of interest to you, or y- you’d like to get involved in, uh, just send me a message, do reach out, uh, and we can start organizing some meetings. Uh, I’m, I’m imagining, you know, that’s going to be a governance, uh, R & R, volunteer management kind of, uh, functions. So, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll be, you know, looking at starting to build that, uh, as well. So please do get in touch. Uh, I’d love to hear from you. Um, and there’s Raffaela with her hand up.

Ben D: Yeah. Oh, I am… I wanted to say that, uh, I would love to be involved in, uh, governance and everything which can rely… I can offer to make contribution in, uh, process transformation and everything. I mean, if I ca- I can, uh, understand a bit better, uh, as well what was the situation in the past, uh, how we experi- experienced the burnout, uh, mm, how we were, uh, used to distribute, uh, the work, what was not working, uh, in the engagement of the community. We can… I could help, uh, doing a bit of analysis and try to understand as well, altogether, how we can, uh, manage to find a new way for distribute better the work, as Daniel said, try to engage better the community. Because, for instance, one of the things which I experiment, but definitely can be as well a bit for my personality, a bit maybe for other reason, is that sometimes, uh, like, I, I really want, uh, to be involved, uh, in shaping, uh, this, uh, um, new experience, but sometimes I struggle to understand how I could. Like, my proactivity isn’t, uh, the best. And so maybe this end up in not giving the best contribution I could, uh, and maybe, you know, I could do more and I don’t. So people which are more proactive and take, uh, take more job for this reason, you know, because I’m not so proactive. So it’s like, uh, I, I step back or I wait, and then, uh, I don’t know, a person which is more proactive, like Daniel, end up doing 10, 10 things, and I look like a person who does want to do it only because for my way of being, I’m not able to tap in and take my spot. And imagine a huge community as we are, probably there are many personality like me, that… And so this can be one of the reason why then we have people doing so many things, uh, and the people not able to find their spot. So maybe we can understand from one side how to create space for personality like me. So this, uh… And as well in a better distribution. And understand, uh, even if there are other problems like this that we could face, to, to have a better life (laughs) for all of us. To create space for the one that want to join, and they don’t really know how to. And, uh, avoid the burnout for people which, which are actually invol- over-involved, like it was in the past. So yeah, I, I’m, uh, totally in. Please involve me in any meeting, anything I can give my contribution. This is my passion as well. I’m totally in.

Daniel T: So I, I, I… Thank, thank you, Zinko. I just want to take a point because Paloma really helped with a statement there, saying that, “It’s good to see that NCA board has the same intentions as GNSL and is taking the same position with asking Meta Leads and Leads at GNSL every meeting and at the ALM to help directors make informed decisions fair.” That is… There is an important difference there. We are not asking you to help the board make decisions fair. Eventually, we’re asking you to make the decisions and tell us what you decide. And that is an important distinction between a company and an association. And it’s understandable that we all fall into our usual patterns on this, in this regard. Now, right now, we’re in this kind of transition period, but where we want to be is that ultimately, the board is there to implement the decisions of the community, voted by the members, uh, voted by, uh, whatever structures the members decide to put in place to make those decisions. Not to tell people what to do.

Chris O: Uh, I see Hardcastle wanted to talk. Uh, so Hardcastle, can I ask you to, uh, to try and keep it brief ‘cause we do have to move on to ??:30 ] soon.

Paul H: Yeah, no, I, I, I… It’s, it’s very quick. It’s just, um, the, you know, it’s very nice going, but at some point we don’t, you know, we don’t want to tell people what to do. But, um, you know, the, the directors of the old GNSL didn’t do that either. Uh, that was the Meta Leads who ran that. That was, you know, a self sort of selected and voted on thing, group of management. Um, but also, like, uh, you know, uh, uh, it sound- this all sounds very good and very positive. I’m, I’m, I’m just, you know… I would be wary of community members getting the idea that, um, we would be able to radically change some of the restrictions placed on the event by the authorities because we’re in charge, rather than the thing. There will still be things that we’ll have to… what we would… or the NCA would have to do, uh, whether we like it or not. Um, but that was my one thing. It’s just going, oh, wait, no, this sounds like you’ve, you’ve, you’ve pitched for total freedom, and some people will need to be… have their expectations managed. (laughs)

Daniel T: Yeah.If anybody here has participated in Holacracy, you’ll know that it’s not at all total freedom. In fact, it’s, like, a sort of, like, obsessive board game type of a situation.

Paul H: Oh, yeah. No, I don’t know what that means, so, uh, that was why I was like, “This is not a term I’m familiar with.” I’m just familiar with how we’ve done stuff before. Um, this sounds similar, so, yeah. (laughs)

Daniel T: (laughs) Just to answer Felicitas, the Ben you’re looking for is BenD on the Discord. (laughs) And, yeah.

Paul H: That’s the best.

Ben D: Yeah, yeah, my, I’ll put my handle in the chat as well, but yes, I’m BenD.

Chris O: Okay, um, happy with that, Daniel? All right. Well, we’re moving on to you ‘cause you have an, uh, an update-

Daniel T: Yeah.

Chris O: … bank account

Daniel T: This one is, is very quick, just to let you know that we got our NIF tarjeta. So we got our provisional NIF. There’s, like, you know, Spanish bureaucracy, uh, moves at the speed of, um, I don’t know, something not, not extremely fast. But, uh, we’ve started the process of talking to banks about opening bank accounts and stuff like that, we’re, we’re like… These, these pieces are coming into place. Um, so, but the, the NIF tarjeta was an important milestone that needed to be sent by mail and received by mail so that they know that it’s a real address and all that kind of stuff. So it’s good that that’s done. And that’s it.

Chris O: Okay. Well, in that case, I think we are moving to perhaps the most exciting item of today, and that is, uh, Kate and the work group on the Go/No-Go, uh, process.

Julian R: Yeah. Hi. I’ll actually, I’ll actually start and then pass over to Ella and Kate. So hi. Uh, Kate, Ella, me are the, the governance work group that came in place few weeks ago, like two, three weeks ago, um, when we noticed that, like, this, this high amount of, uh, changes happening, the transition, uh, a new organization being born just few weeks ago, new roles, and sometimes old challenges, um, really puts, puts the community on, on a place where there, there needs to be a decision for this year. And, um, our way to support the community was to do a bit of the heavy lifting for the information-gathering, um, for the Go/No-Go decision. I think most of years, the- there has been a Go/No-Go decision, but of course, it’s a new thing for the NCAA, and, uh, to present this information, uh, to the community in the best and most compact and, yeah, way possible. And, uh, this is all, uh, being summarized in the info pack that you should have received by mail and will help you then, uh… It should help you, must help you (laughs) to reading it, to, um, cast an informed vote in the poll. Um, there will be more info later. And, um, yeah, the info pack has the goal to have a clear and as objective as possible, um, assessment of the situation. We divided, um, um, the thing in eight areas, you will see it. And over the past two weeks, we had something like 33 talks or interviews with, uh, different people of the community. And, uh, we really saw how, how passionate people are and, um, yeah. Um, so we hope that this will help every one of you to make the best choice for the vote, and to give a little personal, uh, notes, on, at least on my side, some of the interviews have been really amazing, and I, I got, like, to rediscover how, how smart and passionate people are in this community and gave me really, like, a big motivation again, and allowed me to unveil a little, a new layer of the, the Burner bubble. And I feel like I forget it every year, but then I, I get, um, positively surprised again. It’s really nice. And I’ll pass over to Ella and then Kate. Thank you.

Ella T: Hey. Uh, thank you, Julian, for this really nice intro. Yeah. So I will, um, talk a little bit about, uh, the info pack and the community poll. So basically, we approached this assessment, uh, with utmost neutrality (laughs) um, and care. Basically, as Julian mentioned, we were speaking with community members, meta leads, barrier leads, board members, and of course GNSL directors. And basically, we did a lot of listening and note-taking and then rereading those notes. (laughs) Um, and, yeah, those conversations shaped both the info pack and the scorecard, um, bas- or the vote, um, covering all the eight areas, as mentioned, um, which, yeah, we basically identified as essential. And, yeah, uh, to complete list this, um, we are launching a community call be- or the community poll because we want to hear from you. We want to hear your opinions, uh, because yes, your perspective matters, whatever it may be- Mm-hmm … and yeah, because the strength of our community does not lie that we are all of one mind, but in our ability to listen to one another with respect. And, um, for me, what I found most, um, yeah, interesting or cool was basically peeking behind this curtain of… what, yeah, the meta leads and other people behind Going Nowhere have been doing the past years. I was on the volunteer meta lead call, I don’t know, um, sorry, I forgot, but basically everyone who, who, who gathered the volunteers and it was so crazy to hear what you were all, have all been doing the past years. Um, yeah. Thank you, and with that, I will give over to Kate.

Kate B: Yeah, thank you, um, Bambi, and thank you, Ella. Thank you for all your work. We, I don’t think we knew what this was going to ask of us when we said, “Yeah, we’ll help do this governance, this poll.” And then three weeks later, (laughs) here we are. Um, so just to continue on from that, I think, yeah, this decision really touches people deeply, um, different, different emotions regarding a- a- a natural, the info pack and the poll reflects our best effort, but of course, there, there will be gaps. And also, as we see, like new information comes in, uh, almost hourly, so do take that into mind, and of course you may disagree with the process as well. In fact, I would find it very, very surprising if even one single person agreed with like our assessment and our process and how we’ve done this. Um, I, we don’t expect to be invited to any parties on the playa, whether th- there’s, that’s this year or the next year or the year after, like yep, we’re okay with that. We took this on. (laughs) If you see something, of course, um, missing or disagree with an assessment, we invite you to raise it in the spirit of collaboration, um, and you may read this and you think, “Oh my God, they’re so biased against my side.” But as Ella mentioned, like we really did, uh, start this not to argue for a side, but to build a shared understanding of what might be possible for 2026. Um, so thank you f- to everyone who was part of this. Thank you to the GNSL directors, the NCA board, the meta leads, the leads, uh, a whole bunch of community members who contributed to the interviews, also to the info pack. Um, particularly anyone who did some of these in-depth interviews with us, Diego who helped the, the polling questions, um, and yeah, so expecting a few questions, if it’s like a super technical question on like, um, you know, whether this should be a general assembly or like the nature of whether this is binding or not binding, or like technical governance questions-

Chris O: Beep.

Kate B: … I do think it’s probably best if that goes into the governance channel in Discord, where we can give it the attention it deserves, and where people who are deeply across this whole process can respond, like not everyone on the call has that context, um, but yeah, if it’s like a burning question or like you are feeling like there’s no confidence at all in the process, of course you can raise it. Um, so yeah, that’s where we’re at. Like, um, if you, it’s only, it’s been sent by email to the 168, I think, people who have registered to be members of the association. Um, and so it will be in your inbox and it closes at 11:59 on Sunday night. Um, I’m just gonna mute my Discord, sorry. Um, and so it’s not, it’s not long, but of course we are wanting to like end this like, uh, lack of clarity for everyone, whether that’s gonna be a go or a no-go. We need kind of as a community to have a response. That’s why the timeframes were so short. That’s why not all of you were interviewed and I’m sorry for that. Um, and that’s why we have to vote by Sunday night. So yeah. Um, questions? And yeah, please do read the info pack. There is like a little scorecard that gives you a summary. Um, and it’s like a traffic light system, but in the info pack is like way more context and like, uh, details and bullet points and like some numbers. So that like will give more context and there’s also a bit of information about, there’s some disclaimers, there’s some legal, um, information in there as well. So all of that gives the whole context. Okay.

Chris O: Cool. Ben, uh, go ahead and then Tika you, Tika, you had some questions earlier, so I’ll get to you first after that.

Ben D: So I, I just echo that again, please read the info pack. Uh, not the least because it’s, uh, an amazing, amazing piece of work and just really impressive to, to see what the guys have put together. Uh, and so in that line, I also just wanted, Kate, you, you thanked everybody, but I also just wanted to thank you as well and, and, and, uh, um, and the others as well that it’s been really, like just speaking personally from my perspective, it’s been, it’s been really, uh, amazing and heartening to see that being taken up. So like, with such enthusiasm and such intent, and then also just to see the way that initiative has spread around the community and, um, brought up, uh, like managed to give visibility to so many views and, and, and, and not just views, but so much expertise and so much experience and actually so much, so much, uh, feeling about the event. Um, for me, just sort of watching that process unfold has been, has been really amazing and I’ve been really impressed actually, and really grateful for what you guys have brought. So yeah. Thanks very much.

Chris O: Awesome. Uh, and yeah, I’ll, I’ll share that. It’s, it’s been really good to see you guys work and, and thank you so much for everything. Uh, I think we should, we probably have questions from people.

Pablo V: Uh-

Pepe C: There’s a question from TK.

Pablo V: TK, if, if you wanna go ahead, uh, first, then go ahead. But as I mentioned before, please put either questions in the chat or raise your hand and, uh, we’ll, we’ll get to you.

Tyche S: Yeah. Um, so yeah, first of all, also like massive thank you, um, to the people who put a lot of work into this. Um, so to start with, I’m actually just gonna read a statement from Justin from Ubertown, uh, who couldn’t be in this meeting, but, um, is very passionate and, uh, just wanted to share his views. Um, after reading the go/no-go document, it’s a little bit, um, well, it, it’s slightly long, but I do think it’s worth, um, hearing his, his views. And then I have some questions myself after that as well. Um, so first of all, he thanks everyone for their work, and then he says, um, that he doesn’t believe that the, uh, go/no-go document or the accompanying timeline demonstrate the neutrality that the working group said that they would have in particularly… “In particular, the following key elements are problematic. As has been the case in almost all communications and information expressed in the meetings so far I’ve seen, I don’t believe that even nearly enough emphasis has been placed on making clear the existential risk post the event, in the event of it being poorly executed or of a cancellation between the go decision and the gate opening. Secondly, the voting page, I don’t believe conveys the severity of a decision being made in terms of its effect on volunteers, on people’s health, finances and the risk of burnout. Then, there remains no acknowledgement that the previous organization, despite many years of experience, still ran the event at a loss. It lacks real financial projections based on sales and fails to acknowledge that previously very well experienced Gen SL ran the event at a loss, and even Peter conceded in his presentation that ideally the event should be starting with significantly greater reserves. And then, uh, there’s no practical breakdown of what happens with, with the finances if the event fails at any given stage of the timeline. The timeline is written as if there’s guaranteed success from making the go decision. In the same timeline, written with the optimism of the go, uh, camp is directly linked from the… uh, so it’s directly linked from the case of a no-go, so there’s not balance, no balanced counterpoint argument. The no-go argument inaccurately suggests that we’re concerned about the event being substandard when in reality, we’re concerned with its continued existence altogether. That there is a mismatch, mismatch between insisting on a hell yes for the individual, but not for the voting body as a whole.” So this is, um, like the 50/50, or like 50, needing only 51% for a yes. Um, and that the entire thing is undermined by being nonbinding. Um, and so he’ll be voting no. Um, and yes, he, um… And I think all of this comes from, uh, a point of like great and genuine care about the event and its longevity. Um, and he’ll post this on Discord as well, so people can weigh in or respond. Then personally, um, what I’ve been, uh, thinking about since being asked some questions about, um, the safety equipment is like the actual legal position, which led me to do some reading, um, about transferring a, uh, company from, uh, like a, uh, uh, for-profit company to an association and what that looks like in Spain. And whether from a legal, uh, standpoint, we would definitely be seen as a separate legal entity. Um, which is something that I would be interested in, like hearing kind of directly from the lawyers of both parties, whether they think that we would definitely be seen as separate legal entities and therefore wouldn’t run the risk of having the, like liability of the, of the audit or of that sort of continuing or coming back. Um, because it looks like, um, if you can’t properly show that you’re separate legal entities, then even though the association is a not-for-profit company, from a legal standpoint, we could still be liable for the same things. So, I would love to hear from the, for, actually from the lawyers, and not, not hear the lawyers said. Um, and then also just a very minor point. Um, it says in the go/no-go document that we’ve hired a coordinator, but as far as I’m aware, the association has no money. So, what’s going on there? That’s it. Well, that’s the only thing I can think of right now

Kate B: Um, okay. Well, uh, it would be good if you could share that.

Tyche S: Yeah, yeah, I’ll write it down, but it’s also just, you know, these are-

Kate B: Okay.

Tyche S: … all the things that, that just came up.

Kate B: Okay, cool. Well, I can start, take it from the top and run through as many as possible, and then anything that I don’t cover, we can do in the chat or however else. Um, I mean, okay, so the… I’m just trying to do a separation of concerns, like what is… So I under- I heard that the… Justin does not believe that the document demonstrates neutrality that we claim, um, because, well, related to not enough emphasis on existential risk, um, and the severity of running an event against, like in, in the context of these existential risks. Um, so that, I mean, I guess that’s up to each reader to, to decide that. I feel like, uh, there is, um, some, some considerable mention of that in the, in the document. However, like there is like an option that if there is like a, a strong movement of no confidence in the process, there is no abstain vote in the poll as such, but if someone like Justin who has written the statement and asks you to read it feels that strongly-Like, uh, probably Discord would be the best place to, like, vouch for it, the no confidence vote. And of course, this, related to the last question, the fact that this is nonbinding, that is … I’ll just skip to the last question ‘cause this is def- definitely related. The fact that this is a nonbinding poll is related to the statutes of the, the association, which is that, like, to do a general assembly, which is, like, the, the meeting that would have to happen where all members who are, uh, part of the association and have registered, would need to join. That’s qu- quite a, almost a serious thing in Spanish law. Like, it takes, um, uh, it takes time to organize. It doesn’t, it’s not just something that we can do. It would probably take months. Uh, this is related to the fact that not, no, not all members were onboarded even till j- today. So, we did take the decision and communicated this very, very early that we were taking this route, um, that we didn’t have time to do a general assembly, that that would take time, but that’s a very high legal, uh, request under Spanish law, and that we were gonna do this nonbinding poll with this clear structuring and clear process around trusting the board, who are the elected members of this community, to make a decision. A nonbinding decision, but clearly, they’ve communicated a lot about their willingness and desire to be participatory and decentralized. So, if there was, you know, a very strong, um, uh, turnout against this, they will, they will not have confidence of the community by doing the opposite thing. So, that’s why we believe strongly that this poll was, like, safe enough to try. Um, it’s not n- it’s not binding. You’re right, um, on that. So, that’s the last question. Um, there’s, yeah, the finance part, no acknowledgement of the previous organization running at a loss. So, we, we are concerned, like, there is a bit of information about the finances in there. We did take a- a lot of it out for purposes of, like, s- it’s already 12 pages. Sending 30 pages to the community as well as, like, financial forecasts we thought would be too much. But if people do want that information, I’m sure that the association is happy to give it. Um, we can, we can publish that. Um, and of course, like, it’s important to remember that the liability here is, um, everyone here obviously checked their, if you are an association member, your own personal liability as you signed up to be a member and as have the board. And so, the liability of what happens if, you know, the event goes into the red should be understood, I hope, and perhaps more information could be published on that. Um, it’s definitely a factor and it’s definitely a good concern to raise, for sure. And it’s, it’s great that, uh, Justin and others are bringing these concerns. Um, just l- looking at my notes. The practical breakdown of what happens, the, the what happens if we go document, it’s, uh, a document written by Daniela, who, as I understand, is hired, um, to, to do the production and coordination, and that is based on if we go. That’s, like, just an overview of what to expect. And-

Pepe C: Can you repeat that?

Kate B: Sorry. Just don’t wanna s- I will just-

Pepe C: That’s great.

Kate B: Yeah, the mismatch of insisting on the hell yeah, of the personal, like, position of how you vote. Um, we’ve explained that in the Discord, so please go check there. And, um, lastly, legal reasons, like, that there is some contingency expressed in the document around this, like, about the necessary … We, we’ve asked for a legal, legal advice from the lawyers of the association, and that that must be considered by the board of directors of the NCA before any final decision is taken. I’ll stop for now.

Pepe C: Pepe, do you wanna take the next questions?

Pepe C: Yes, absolutely. I’ll find the chat. So, uh, let’s see. What is the next question? This chat is moving so fast.

Pepe C: It was about the, um, legal, um, uh, like the legal rest of the event, and, uh, the, uh, that somebody has been hired.

Pepe C: Yep, correct. So-

Tyche S: Yeah, and the, the, like, the, the sep- the legal, the, the assurance of legal separation between the two entities and that it will not be seen as a continuing business under a different, m- in a different form, basically.

Pepe C: Right. So, I’ll start with that one, which is, I think, the most relevant. So, um, this is a process. This is a … Imagine that you were born as, um, as Siamese twins, and, uh, there is a process to detach all of the different parts. You know, you have an arm, you have a leg, and, uh, which leg goes in which way so everything functions properly, and then you can have two actually walking functional humans. So, we are in that process. We are cutting. Now, as all processes, there is a lot of things to be very careful, very mindful of, but we’ve, um, had legal advice. We have professional legal advice, and I probably should start with context. Um, I am a corporate lawyer myself. I’ve been doing this for about 20 years. I am not a, um, a lawyer in Spain, but some of the general principles of business are, uh, cut across nations. Um, we are working with specialized labor, corporate, and tax councils that give us opinions on the, you know, different bits and pieces. The same way when you would go to a surgery like this, you would need a cardiologist, and you would need an anesthesiologist, and you would need different specialties to make sure that a separation surgery it’s, um, it’s functioning. Now, GNSL has the same.

Pepe C: I seem to have broken Pepe by pinning him.

Pepe C: Oh. Uh-oh.

Pepe C: Maybe I shouldn’t have pinned him.

Daniel T: Um… Let’s give it another… Wow, I guess he’s frozen. Um-

Kate B: Well-

Daniel T: While he, while he rejoins-

Kate B: Lars, can you explain the coordinator question as well?

Daniel T: Yeah, the coordinator question, very simply, um, uh, we have loaned money to the association in order to, uh, for it to be able to afford, uh, hiring, uh, Daniela. Uh, this is on, uh, like 0% terms. Um, the, um, uh, that was without… about it, uh, uh, a term without any expectation of interest. Um, in fact, we’re legally not allowed to receive interest for this. Um, as somebody who’s started multiple companies, I can tell you this is a very common practice with starting, uh, organizations. They don’t have a bank account. They don’t have a budget. The people who start the organization typically loan money to it. They pay for, you know, Google accounts. They pay for various things that the organization needs to have in order to get started before it has a bank account so that it can get started. Um, this is ex- extremely common. Every company that I’ve started has done this, and associations are no different in that respect. Um, yeah. Um, I think I’d like Pepe to answer the question that he started answering, and I’m sure he will rejoin. Uh, maybe in the meantime, we could have, um, like-

Kate B: So, Pepe says he needs to be let in. Uh, maybe-

Daniel T: Oh.

Kate B: … Daniel, if you see some notification. I don’t-

Daniel T: There’s no… He may be trying to join the wrong meeting? I did press Pin, not s- not something else. Press Pin for everyone. (laughs) Thank you. Um…

Pepe C: Oh.

Daniel T: Yeah. Now I can hear Pepe.

Kate B: Wow. Okay.

Pepe C: Got it. Now I can hear Pepe. Sorry. So, um, yeah. Long story short, we have a bunch of specialist doctors, and we are spinning it off. I can tell you that based on all of the information we receive, all of the legal documents that we are producing, all of the opinions, the expert opinions, that the risk is low. Now, as all things, there is… it’s impossible to say we are 100% sure that, uh, a surgery is gonna go well because there’s always unknown risk, but we’re taking all the precautions, and we can say that it is a very low risk. Uh, it is a very low risk that we can be considered in a succession based on the way we are structuring the movement of assets, the way the different management of the companies is being set up, and the way the operations are being set up for new events. And so, there is that. There is also very minimum risk or a very low risk that any of the fines coming from the audit from GNSL would carry over to NCA for the same reason. We are a separate entity with different management, with different operations. There is, sure, an event that was going to happen once a year on a similar place, uh, on the same place, but that’s about it, um, and for the rest, there’s many companies, many similar things. It doesn’t necessarily make them part of the same group of organizations because there is no shareholding, there is no joint management, there is no control, uh, of these organizations. I believe the other, uh, point was about someone being hired. The answer is yes. Um-

Daniel T: We, we, we covered that point while you were away, uh, but there was also-

Pepe C: Yeah, uh-

Daniel T: … a question about lawyer written statements on this.

Pepe C: Which one?

Daniel T: There’s also a question about written statements on the lawyers on this.

Pepe C: Let me see the question.

Daniel T: We can chat.

Tyche S: Yeah, just that it would be good to see, like, from, from all the lawyers themselves, like, “This is what we think.” Because there’s a lot of, “Oh, the lawyer said this,” or, “We still have to discuss with the lawyers.” Like, it would, it would be nice to see, like, from the lawyers, like, “This is what we believe.”

Pepe C: That’s, that’s something that we’re working on. Um, there are two things at play here. One is time efficiency, and the second one is cost efficiency. Um, lawyers, law firm lawyers charge by the hour, so we can have them work on documents, on review and produce documents, or we can have them work on preliminary opinions. If they work on preliminary opinions, then we will just rack up the bills, and they will need to do another opinion in the end once we have the final documents. So, usually, in this ca- in this type of transactions, the legal opinions come at the end. Once the documents are in final form, then the lawyers will give an opinion saying, “Based on these documents in their current form and the, and the things that they say, the risk of this is low, high, medium, or these are the challenges or problems.” So for that, we need to get a little more advanced in documents and, um, in, in the documents that will provide the support for the transaction. But, yeah, the structuring was based on their advice. It’s just not economically viable or smart to get constant legal opinions on every step of the way.

Kate B: Just to add-

Daniel T: There was another one on liability, no? Yeah.

Kate B: Just to add to that, on page, um… I think it’s page 10 of the Go/No-Go Readiness Assessment, there are three paragraphs on this, which kind of… it’s a way of saying like, yeah, we, we’ve… within the cou- last couple of weeks, we haven’t been able to get the, like, written legal opinion, which does take time, but there are commitments to, um… contingent on this association having attained this advice on the risk, with particularly attention to labor law sanctions, um, and that the, the summary of findings must be shared. Um, and that the, our interpretation of what we’ve heard so far that… is that NCA is a sep- separate legal entity with no continuity from Going Now SL, and that we’re very confident, and that’s reflected in the…… the go/no-go that the compliance framework, at least, is being built from scratch. And there’s a bunch more, there are, um, yeah, there’s a bunch more information there on what’s happening with the legal process. But yeah, of course, I think it’s great that we push for the actual, um, ad- advice or opinion as needed, TK. Like, that would be great. I totally agree, and I think this decision is totally contingent on that because none of us-

Tyche S: Yeah.

Kate B: … want to risk what’s at stake. And I’m sure the board-

Tyche S: Yes.

Kate B: … don’t either.

Tyche S: It’s just that- that, like, the whole point of this is to avoid this. And so, if there’s any risk of- of those things following us to- to this organization, then like what’s the point of any of this, right? So, we need to be as sure as we can be, obviously understanding that we can never be 100% sure. We need to be as sure as we can be because we’re all investing a huge amount and, like, none of this is to- to- to say that anyone is doing a bad job, or doesn’t care, or isn’t doing their absolute best. It’s all just coming from also me caring a huge amount and- and just really wanting this to succeed into the future.

Kate B: 100%. Uh, totally agree, and thank you for bringing that.

Pepe C: Yeah. We’ll make sure that all, both the- the full opinion, um, and a summary, because the opinion might be legally heavy, uh, or technical heavy, we will also do a simplified, um, in plain English, this is what this opinion mean, without the hereby, uh, notwithstanding, there are others that are horrible and depressing and soul-draining. Uh, we will share with you, um, once we have, once we are closer in terms of- of documents. And we will also share the opinions from the tax part, the data protection part, and the labor risk, um, as we are building the scaffolding for the new operations. There was another question around the liability of the members/theo. Um, and the reality under Spanish law is that it’s a very limited liability. There is no personal liability like in- in, um, other type of formal organizations and your liability is restricted to your contribution to the association. This means that if the organization borrows a million dollars, but you give your member fee, which might be $1 or might be $5, then doesn’t matter if the organization owns $2 million, you are only, you will be only on the hook for those $1 or $5 that you are… that- that you provided first, as you kind of consider it ac-, um, capital or equivalent to equity, uh, or the ones that you need to provide as the time goes by. So, it’s, uh, it’s very limited and very capped. I believe it was mentioned before that you will have personal liability and exposure for being involved and, just to clarify, that is not the case. It’s very, very, um, set or very limited. It’s very protective for the members, so the members can be actively involved and, um, and their- their- their liability is shielded by the organization itself. I don’t know if that covers it.

Tyche S: I think it does and we’re… It’s 9:00 PM, so we… and still have a few items. Um, the, um, it- it sounds like there could be quite a lot of conversation about the go/no-go. Uh, I’d like to get to the end of the agenda and then we can have more Q&A, if that’s okay. Um, the next agenda item, which might sort of reinvigorate us is, uh, maybe a power update from, uh, I think, Daniella, you have a recording from, uh, Javi that you can share with us or…

Speaker S: Yes, I’m gonna try, um… (laughs) He sent it on the power, uh, thread on Discord.

Tyche S: It makes sense that the power lead would send something via electricity. (laughs)

Speaker S: Um, okay, I’m gonna-

Tyche S: I apologize for my sense of humor.

Daniela S: … I’m gonna hit play to see if it works (laughs) and if it doesn’t, then I can just give a summary.

Javi: Hi, people of the new event. This is Javier. Uh, well, first of all, sorry I cannot attend the, this meeting, but I wanted to update because I know power is crucial (laughs) for the event. So, um, I have good news. Uh, well, I’ve been working with Daniela for the last two weeks or three, um. We- we, uh, have started to think about everything and also at the production side or we already have quotes. Um, and yesterday or in the last two or three days, we have started a new power group on this call and we are so far a lot of people. We are like, uh, six people and me. I believe that most of them, will- will- will stay in the, in power, um. They all have more or less experience, uh, some of electricity and some others not that much, but they- they’ve been working with the YellowGrid in the past year, so they- they know how we work. Um, a- a few of them are- are very geek, so they can take, uh, the roles of designing the grid. Um, well, uh, uh, I’ve been- I’ve been building the YellowGrid since the beginning, so I have experience with nearly all of the roles that- that- that- that needs to be covered. So, I can- I can teach the- them. Uh, data, uh, we have already a- a power thread, uh, under S- SLI. Uh, so if you are curious, you can get there and see what we are talking about. We- we just started yesterday. I think we will have our first meeting, I mean, the new power team, something like next week because, well, I want all these six people to…… to read thoroughly the job descrip- uh, the descriptions that Rivard made. That is- is very good, that document, because it explains everything very good. Um, maybe a bit frightening, but, uh, but, but, it’s not that frightening in the end and, uh, I know I- I- I have, I- I have the knowledge to explain everything. So, um, I think that is, uh, so far, uh … but also, um, other people from previous years, um, I’m not quite sure if I, um, I have understand. Uh, Prikop, there is already some names like Joe Lakes, and I know they are all, um, they are coming or not or why are their names there. Also, Genial at another document I’m seeing, and I seen Blondie have access to the new drive. So if they are flying over there and they can assist us, then that would be a super, super secure, I mean, uh, a grant of successful (laughs) success- successfulness. If not, uh, we could do it. We- we can, we can do it, but things would be really, really easier if we can count with any of them. Well, especially Blondie, of course. Um, Piko for the NoppieWare. And well, ev- everybody has, uh, their own specialty within the power. But, wh- uh, well, last year, I- I kind of worked with them. So I was in some groups, and I know what they- they were doing, but counting with some of or all of them, um, will, uh, make things way easier. I think, uh, I think that’s all I- I can say by now. Uh, the- the thing is, we are good to go. We already have a team, and we are working on it. So, but the power side of the new event, um, we are okay, green light.

Daniel T: Cool. Excellent. I would say thank to- thank you to Javi, but he’s- he’s … well, maybe he’ll- he’ll look at the minutes. Um, by the way, I took over MCing because Chris had to go. Uh, and, uh, I’ll hand over to, next to, uh, Ben and Peter or some combination thereof to talk about the Humans app updates and, uh, what’s going on with that.

Ben D: Uh, Peter, do you have anything technical to say about it before I …

Pablo V: No, things are good. Yeah. You can go, go, Chris.

Ben D: Okay. Good. Yeah. So some more, uh, lighthearted announcements or, um, or, um, infos. That’s, uh, let’s all laugh at, uh, Ben’s, uh, bumbling email attempts, uh, to get everybody onto Nobodies, uh, platform. Sorry if I emailed you, like, two or three times the same thing over the past couple of days. Um, still just getting the hang of my, uh, automated mail lists. Um, but, uh, short version is that, uh, the Nobodies platform is now operational, and it’s now the place where we’re receiving applications to participate in the event or join the association. So I’ve been going around the Discord and updating all of the links in there that used to link to a Typeform to apply. They now link to the, uh, Humans app. Um, the Typeforms co- also has- says that this is no longer the place, and there’s a link in there that says, “Please go, please go to the Humans app.” So, uh, hopefully everybody will be going there. Um, I have been emailing you the past couple of days, everybody who is a current association, uh, collaborator or member, um, to, uh, get you to move over to the- the- the Humans platform. Um, I did get some feedback, very helpful feedback, um, that, uh, my email looked kind of spammy (laughs) . So I appreciate that feedback, and I am taking it on board and will be making my future emails look less spammy. Um, but in any case, do check your spam, uh, your other, your other folders as well. Just search, uh, your whole emails for emails from Ben at Nobodies, um, ‘cause it will be in there somewhere. Um, yeah. And there’s- there’s been a couple… I’ve- I’ve had more applications coming in this week, so I’ve been continuing, I’m continuing to reach out to everybody to- to- to get everybody over to the new, uh, platform. Um, as I note in the email I’ve been sending about that, there’s a lot of functionality there that is gonna make a lot of this coordination, organization side of things a lot smoother. Um, so the… all the teams are gonna be listed in there, and you’ll be able to see who’s in what team, what department for the, uh, for the, uh, association. Uh, and then really the sky’s the limit in terms of more functionality we can keep adding to that in terms of even, like, potentially putting on a sort of shift, uh, feast kind of functionality there potentially and, uh, and other things as well. So yeah, it’s been, uh, it’s been really nice to see it come online, and it’s really cool to see already lots of people signing up. So yeah, do, do swap over. As I said, it- it is one more sign up you have to do, but I’ve been emailing you back the- the information that you put into your original applications. I’m just sending it straight back to you, so you can just do a copy and paste if that’s, uh, if that’s easier for you. Um, I think that’s about it. Maybe just the last thing to say on- on- on association membership is that we have, um, finalized our- our, uh, official criteria for Associado voting membership of the association…. uh, so I imagine that’s gonna be posted on GitHub, uh, relatively soon. Um, and we’ll be, we’ll be linking that in, in, in the chat. But essentially, there’s, there’s criteria. I don’t know if we can even, um, go through that on the call now, just to give people an idea.

Daniel T: Maybe. Maybe we… ‘Cause it’s already, like, 10 past 9:00, so maybe, maybe not this call. Maybe we’ll just-

Ben D: Okay.

Daniel T: … just read it.

Ben D: So, we’ll, so, we’ll post, we’ll post those, um, who, who would be eligible to be a voting member on, on the Discord. Uh, and of course, uh, you know, it’s just how, it’s how initial settings we put, but it’s ultimately gonna be community who decides that. And, and we’ll be adjusting that, uh, at the next general assembly. And, and, um, so yeah, it’s a good starting point. But that’s it.

Daniel T: Peter.

Pepe C: I can take the one on the refunds, um-

Daniel T: Oh.

Pepe C: … real quick. Um, what’s, what is the plan if we have spent ticket money on vendor deposits but then we need to refund them? Um, it’s a three-fold plan actually. Um, as we start talking with new vendors and we are re-evaluating all of the different, um, operations and all of the different services that we need to launch, we are negotiating and, in case if we negotiate any contracts with those vendors and aiming to minimize the nonrefundable pieces. Uh, what is the minimum amount that we need to put down so we can ensure that we receive the services or that we lock the goods that we will need to launch this? And does this reduce the amount of, um, cash exposure that we will need to put in there that will not come back? We’re also working on expanding revenue streams to have alternative source of funding that will create additional avenues for cash to replenish these, uh, tickets if we need to refund them. And finally, of course, this is an idea of mine that I’ve just mentioned to Daniel, but it’s a great idea, I think. We can always launch the Sexy coin in the crypto markets, and we can hedge against some of the financial distress right now that the, um, cryptos are low, and that will give us some buffering on how to play with some cash. But that is just my personal idea. Don’t hold the board accountable on this. I think the name is great though.

Daniel T: (laughs) Thank you, Pepe. The, the other idea was even better, but yeah. Um, anyway, um-

Pepe C: I- I mentioned it if you want, but, um…

Daniel T: If you want. It’s up to you. It’s your idea.

Pepe C: If, um… Also, if we were to run out of money, we could always host a round of fundraising orgies throughout the world.

Daniel T: (laughs)

Pepe C: And, um, that would also give us large quants of, um, at least awareness of our financial situation with very wealthy donors willing to join our cause, and also have a great time while, while funding this. Many ideas.

Pepe C: Doing one 11th of April for fundraising for Curious Creatures.

Daniel T: (laughs) Fantastic.

Pepe C: I’m through and I will go, yes. Answer them.

Ben D: (laughs)

Pepe C: Yes.

Daniel T: Next, I’ll hand over to, uh, Anna, uh, for something about participant wellness. Um, but stay, s- stick around. It’s interesting. And then there’ll be one more item, so.

Anna T: Uh, yeah, just a, an update really, um, and linking to what, uh, to the, the creation of the Nobodies app and this, um, uh, bring- bringing people into the association, and that we’re having, like, like, all of these, uh, um… I don’t know where I was going with that. Sorry. Um, (techno music plays) I don’t know why I’m still here. Um, so, like, essentially participant wellness has been mainly focused about the event in, uh, in previous iterations. And some of you wanna know more and better about this than I do, because I joined the consent team last year, in 2025. And my understanding from my handover from previous leads is that, like, basically we, we were working on participant wellness in the event and not so involved with the organization, um, and with, like, a year, year-round kind of, uh, space of that. And, like, as this association is being born right now and being kind of co-created and we’re essentially, like, deciding how we want it to be, how we want and how we want decisions to be made, how we want, um, the community to, to create this, um, and also talking about, uh, membership to it and the, the criteria for that, the, the policies around that, like, there’s this kind of place that participant wellness feels like it’s stepping into. So essentially, it’s, um, kind of just updating on, like, the… It’s kind of transforming concept that, um, the focus has gone from people at the event to now also the people who are the collaborators organizing and then the people who are association members, um, all of whom are kind of three overlapping groups of people, essentially. And how we shift what we do in participant wellness to, to meet this, uh, kind of shifting concept of, of who, who we all are and when, when we’re all active. So, I’m kind of working, uh, to update, for example, the participant code of conduct, which is something which is relevant to the event. And it’s a really important thing. Um, it feels like a huge responsibility because this is something that we, people agree to when they buy a ticket to the event, and then they agree to abide by it and, and that there will be a consequence if they do not, um, which consent and which Malphare manage. So, I just want to, like, bring your attention to that for when. Um, I’m gonna put in the participant wellness Discord group, I’m gonna share this, uh, draft code of conduct right now… uh, well, not right now actually, probably on Saturday, and just invite, uh, any input on the document basically like, “Please, anyone come and comment on the document and, and feedback to me.” Because it feels very important to me that this is fully a com- community decision how we choose to be with each other. Um, so that’s one thing. And, yeah, if you are interested or experience involvement in this, um, in this kind of, uh, roles, then there’s also a kind of, kind of welcoming to that. For example, previously, we were not really involved if there was a dispute outside of the event, like between, um, say between two people in the association or two people organizing the event, then like the, the team I’m kind of part of was not really active in that, and we’re going to be. Like, there’s, at least there’s a desire to be. (laughs) Like, there’s a desire to provide kind of mediation to, to provide support in these kinds of circumstances. And at the moment, like, I, I have these desires and I’m creating policies around, like, “Hey, what could happen in this situation?” And, uh, there is like, like if you, if you’re interested to, like, be a part of that, to, to put into the creation of it or to, to just help facilitate it, like if you have mediation experience, like that kind of thing, then as it’s a kind of invitation from me on, on Discord right now to get in touch basically and to, to feed into that. Um, does, does any of this make sense? Does anyone have any questions? It’s really, uh, just an update on what I’m up to.

Daniel T: Apparently, no questions.

Anna T: No question.

Daniel T: You’ve just been extremely clear. Um-

Anna T: Um-

Daniel T: … if you have any questions, you can also just type them and we can, uh, uh… Or, or you can raise your hand and we can get to you.

Anna T: Yeah. Or else can … uh, on, just on the Discord-

Daniel T: Okay.

Anna T: … on participant wellness as well and, uh, and I’m checking that as well. But yeah, also just sending, uh, sending super big love to you all.

Daniel T: Thank you, Anna. Uh, let me unpin you and pin myself somehow. Can I pin myself? Probably. Pin for everyone. Okay. That feels weird. Um, anyway, um, the, um, uh, the last item is around… Well, the… You might… Those who joined early or on time or, like, within the first five minutes, might have heard music playing. Um, it was, uh, I hope, more enjoyable than the silence, uh, we’ve had awkwardly, uh, at the beginning of the calls, uh, for the last, um, uh, for the last few calls. Um, because it’s, um… We don’t want to have like a copyright take down or that sort of stuff, uh, I picked a track that I, I produced like a few years ago. Uh, if you have other tracks that you want to… Uh, if you have tracks that you would like to have played at the beginning of the, of the calls, please send them to me and I’ll try to, like, you know, pick a different one randomly each, uh, each week. Obviously, I can only do one at a time. It is not a whole party, but, um, it would be cool to have productions by the many creative people in this community, uh, play at the beginning instead of silence. Um, and the other thing is, uh, right now, so far, the, um, the agenda for these, uh, these community calls has been, like, sort of put together typically on the day before or the day of the, um, uh, o- or the day of the, um, the call. Um, and, and typically put together by the board. That doesn’t have to be, uh, the case. Uh, we, first of all, invite people who want to do an update to the community on this call to do an update. And, uh, I would, I would re- like I… And I’m not the only one, we would really like somebody else to be emceeing these calls and so managing the, the agenda and managing the, managing the conversation. Um, so if you’re up for that, get in touch, um, make yourself known, and if you have an update that you wanna give to the, to the community, please speak up as well, um, so that people can hear what’s going on in your neck of the woods. Um, I hope that makes sense. Um, there’s a couple of people with their hands up, so I’m gonna hand over to Jokin. Jokin or Jokin, do you want to speak? Okay. Um, so maybe a bit later. Another Sorry, sorry, it was an error. So you don’t wanna speak

Pepe C: Uh…

Pepe C: When I was in… I have the phone, my phone in my, in my pocket and I received a message by error. Sorry.

Daniel T: Okay. Cool. Uh, Kate, you also had your hand up, so…

Kate B: Yeah, I’m just trying to make space for further questions on the go/no-go. Um, but we’ve got 10 minutes, uh, I don’t know if we can use that time. And otherwise, we’ll go to the governance channel. Um, and of course, um, it’s important, like if there’s genuine, like, no confidence in the process, that’s a concern. And I think the best place to, like, raise that is in Discord as well. Um, but otherwise, there is a poll and it does have, um, the option to vote no. So that’s also a valid option. But otherwise, open for questions about the process or about the what’s in there. Further questions, yeah, go ahead. And also, please answer anyone who has information, it’s not just me.

Pepe C: Joao?

Pepe C: Yeah. Well, I have a series of points I wanted to make. I’m not sure there’s time for all this here, so, um, I’m curious about how this conversation’s gonna continue at this call. Uh, the first one, that the point was raised about the risk of, like, continuity from the SL to the association, and the repercussions that that could lead. Like, for example, if the SL was fined in a new audit, that would transfer to the association. Do we have information if, like, skipping a year would improve that situation? Because I’m not sure that skipping a year will change that. So, if the question is, “Oh, continuity is a problem,” but if skipping a year doesn’t necessarily affect that, that is ultimately unrelated to the, uh, to the go/no-go question. So, that, that would be for Pepe or anyone that has information from the noise.

Pepe C: Yep. So, the, on, on a first premise, the, the risk of succession happens when there is a fiction of one business disappearing and then exactly everything that they were doing, the same people doing the same thing in the same place in the same way appearing somewhere else, doing it with a different T-shirt, for example. Uh, and then you create that fiction that it’s a new entity, but literally everyone is in… If the same people are involved, it’s the same business unit, it’s the same processes, it’s the same, it’s the same everything. And that’s the risk. Doesn’t matter if you do it, you know, next year, in six months, in three years, because your audit trail goes up to five years if the auditors want to chase you around, um, depending on how intense they are. So, there really is, it’s a q- it’s a question of, well, an auditor or a, or a tax authority or a labor authority will decide if it’s enough, but it really doesn’t affect much, because what they’re looking for is, are you doing the exact same thing, not so much when. And that is determined by the people. Who are the people managing, in this case, the event? Do you have the same directors? Do you have the same management team, which in this case there is no management team. Do you have the same employees? Do you have the same vendors? Do you have the same, um, structure? And then they can say, “Yes, you are basically the same company.” Now, in this case, there’s a different type of association or different type of organization where there’s no shareholders. So, no one owns this business, so there is no, the same ownership is off. So, there is, there is no effective, uh, legal owner or beneficiary for the event, as there is with G&SL. Then the ultimate management, which is the board, is different. It was very intentional that none of the people on the G&SL board were part of the, of the NCA board, but precisely to avoid the risk of contamination, contamination for lack of better word, uh, for this, this, um, audit trail or this, this risk to transfer. And then on the bottom part, yes, some of the assets are the same, but that is less of a problem, because it is very common for, uh, companies to go bankrupt, and then they sell the assets, and the assets get reused for a similar or related, uh, purpose.

Pepe C: For example, if you have a store and then you’re selling shirts, and then you are not a really good salesman, and then your store goes out of business, you will effectively transfer the store. And there will be someone else coming in that takes the exact same space, takes the exact same inventory, and is basically also selling shirts in the same physical space. But it’s impossible for the tax authorities or the previous vendors to come saying, “Hey, uh, you owe me money,” because the previous owner, you know, had all these debts. Because you are not the same, there is not necessarily a succession, unless you kept absolutely everything. The owner is the same, he just changed his title, all of the employees are the same, all of the supply chain is the same, and you just changed the sign on the wall that says, “It’s a new shop. Start over.” No, doesn’t fly. If you effectively sold, if you effectively pass it to new people, then your risk of succession is, um, reduced heavily. I don’t know if that answers the question. So, yes, short answer, skipping one year or three may not have an impact. There is not a certainty that that is what will completely diffuse it. Oh, well, thanks, Pepe. I think that, that… My point was exactly that. And then I think that here I’m kinda replying to, uh, what was read from Justin’s message. And, like, again, it’s unfortunate that he’s not here, but I understand that someone who’s arguing for the no could then, like, take his position. Because, uh, another question that I have now is that, like, there was this implication that maybe the, the people doing this go/no-go evaluation might be biased. And I think it’s important to acknowledge that I think to a certain extent it’s obvious that (laughs) the people that are doing a lot of work in hopes of the event happening this year are very likely biased towards the event happening this year, right? Like, again, people wouldn’t be putting this much work if they didn’t want it to happen this year. So, uh, I, I don’t know if the, you know, like the three people that did the, the report themselves are personally biased. I would certainly say that I’m biased, that I want the event to happen. Unless an absolute red flag saying, “Hey, if we do this, it’s going to be a disaster,” like, which I don’t understand happened, uh, I’m, I’m personally still in favor of that. But if there’s any criticism, like for example, that these people that did this, uh, the… analysis bias, or, or why are we doing just 51%? I would love to hear proposals of what can be done then to either dissolve these doubts or what to do instead. Does anyone that is biased towards or no, considered neutral, wants to take a look at all the dat- data and provide an independent assessment, or if you think 51% is not good, w- what percentage should that be? Should it be 75? Should it be 90%? Or, or what, like, again? And at the same time, I’d like to say that I’m still very impressed with the amount of transparency that all these processes are being held and s- also the amount of energy, and the way that people are being honest and transparent. So like, if people are actively, yeah, biased towards it not happening or have strong reasons to think it shouldn’t happen, just be transparent, and I think we should… And, and this is the environment where they just go out to confront these, uh, impressions. And, well, that, that’s what I wanted to say.

Pepe C: Yeah. So I can… There’s, there’s two sides of this coin, right? There’s a lot of people that, like you said, may have… And it’s impossible not to have a bias because you’re human, and then human emotion will always filter or not, whether you have it under control, yes or no, a different story. And I can only speak for personal experience on this bias. I have never been to Nowhere. Um, so I don’t, I don’t feel like I have a necessary bias that I want to go and experience it, because I’ve never had it. So I’m personally looking at this as a concept ‘cause I am a Burner. And how do we build a sustainable event for the years to come? And the lens is, it’s not about having it this year or having it in two years. It’s, can we have it in 20 years? Can this still be alive in 20? So I’m a very old person in, with gray hair sitting, looking at some kids running around, and be able to be like, “Guys, let me show you something that will change your life the way it changed mine.” How do we build that? And some of those decisions and factors, yes, impact if we do it this year or next year, or we change the name, or we don’t change the name, or we put more containers, or we have more orgies, or all of the above, not necessarily. But, what really matters is, I think all of the people that are involved here are doing it with the lens of, we’ve all been touched and changed by the Burn, and we all want other people to experience it. Not this year, but for the rest of our lives. Um, and I think that is the, the lens regardless of a minor… Yes, we wanna have it. We can always go to a different Burn on the summer. There’s, there’s Burns everywhere. But we all have emotional reasons to wanna have it here because this is home. So, I think that’s the lens where everyone involved is looking at it, with a long-term, sustainable, life-changing experience for everyone.

Daniel T: Thank you, Pepe. Uh, I’m aware that we’re at, uh, 9:30 now, so just at our end time. But let’s just hear quickly from Pablo and Ella, and, uh, then we’ll close the meeting, and we can continue the conversation on Discord. I, I know it’s not as nice as seeing each other, but, you know, time matters as well. Pablo.

Pablo V: Yeah, just, I just want to share a little perspective, which is, how would this look if we w- didn’t have this governance decision? Um, if we didn’t have it, the board would have to kind of make an assessment of, like, our best guess. But I think what’s happening by having this governance process is we’re collecting perspectives of everyone who cares, and those are the members, the leads, the people who’ve been here for years, the people who look at it and want it to happen but also have concerns. And we’re trying to bring all that together, and that is going into our recommendation. That’s what the document says. And I think it’s a little bit unfair to say that a recommendation should have, like, a perfect plan for every contingency and every possible scenario, because that’s what operational reality looks like. And I think once we get into operations is when you get into all these daily micro-decisions almost. Like, for example, if there’s a major concern about something, uh, that we didn’t know, then we need to consider that. If there’s obvious concerns about, um, for example, finance is a big, is a big thing that needs to work out, right? So, of, of course the operational layer is going to take care that all these risks are mitigated, that payments are delayed, that we operate with certainty, that we scale things up and down. But I think there are really things happening at two different levels, and I think it’s really important that, uh, this governance discussion is happening. It gives us a kind of 360 view on how everybody is thinking about it. And with that recommendation, you can go forward and say, “Okay. If we think we can make this an operational reality, we, we go forward and do that.” But I, I personally think this is a quite good process. Of course, not without risks. Everything, everything’s, uh, an evolving reality, but, uh, but we’re ready to, to navigate that, uh, should it become positive.

Daniel T: Yes. Kate says, “Also, it’s important to vote.” Uh, uh, passing over to Ella.

Ella T: Yes. Uh, I just wanted to, uh, say this, this course is very, uh, important. And we knew that this was, or we were talking about it earlier, that this was going to, uh, happen, that people will be, you know, have their own opinions. And just personally from me, we all tried to be very neutral. Um, we talked to, yeah, as just said before, 33 people who all had different opinions rag- uh, ranging from, “Yes, you know, we can do this. Uh, we are strong. We are a huge community.”… uh, to know we should definitely not do this. This, uh, this i- is too risky. And, um, I think we really m- like, from the, from all of the different transcripts of interviews that I’ve read, um, or skimmed through, I think we really managed to, to, to give a neutral outlook and, uh, give, yeah, you a good overview. Um, and yeah, I personally don’t think that it’s, like, tainted from, like, positive notes and, uh, I know that a lot of people who are very active in organizing and try to do this maybe tend to or, you know, that I see in the chats who are really like, “Oh, yeah, we couldn’t… We can do this.” And try to, to recruit volunteers actually are like, um, more of a no so, you know, you can never know, uh, people, what people’s personal opinions are even from what, how, how active they are. Sorry. I’m rambling on. Uh, Kate, (laughs) you also have a point.

Daniel T: I think, I think we could… We all enjoy talking about, um, uh, about all this. Uh, I said that, uh, it would be the last. So, um, sorry to cut you off, Kate. There, there, the governor’s channel is there. People can talk there. Um, we can continue this conversation there. Thank you, everybody, for joining. Thank you, like, everybody for, for staying so long. Um, please send me some tunes and some, um, agenda items, and I’ll see you all throughout the week, and, of course, on Thursday. Bye.

Pepe C: Bye-bye.

Ben D: Thanks, everybody.

Pepe C: Thanks a lot. Bye-bye.

Speaker W: Bye-bye.

Speaker X: Bye.

Pepe C: Bye.

Pablo V: So I guess we’re suggesting to move to-

Daniel T: Bye.

Pablo V: … voice chat in Discord-

Pepe C: Yeah.

Pablo V: … if anybody wants to continue. So voice channel and Discord, if you want to jump there, that will be open.

Daniel T: I think there’s not many people left here, so let’s, let’s close this one. Bye.